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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2018 20:32:29 GMT -5
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Post by michaelw on Feb 17, 2018 22:16:45 GMT -5
You know what I think is really awful about that tweet?
It struck me after seeing it that what it will probably take to get real changes in US gun politics is when so many people have a lost a loved one to a shooting, the sheer numbers will just be so great that the scales will have to tip.
It reminded me of when I attended a political lecture in Israel and the speaker asked for a show of hands for everyone who had a loved one who had died in a suicide bombing, and everyone in the room (except me) raised their hand. And I'm sure if you asked a room full of Palestinians, they would say the same thing about relatives who had been killed by the IDF. It's tragic as hell, but after seeing that, you can see why political opinions become so passionate, when it's that personal for people. Eventually, we could very well reach a point where it's the same for Americans knowing people who have been shot. And it will be utterly pathetic that it had to reach that point.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2018 22:43:30 GMT -5
I can't find the tweet now (and heh, am still working...) but I saw one yesterday that gave me chills. A teacher was discussing a drill a kindergarten class was having in case a shooter came to the school. The kids were instructed to throw books at the assailant, run around and distract him, etc. The teacher thought, "wtf, if someone is in front of little Suzy with an assault rifle, she's gonna die. What good is throwing a book going to do?" And then the teacher realized -- that wasn't about protecting that kid or any of the kids in the room, who'd probably be dead in that event. It was to hopefully gain a few seconds so some other kids might possibly have time to escape.
She added -- that's what we've come to as a country: we are teaching five-year-olds how to die in a way that might gain other kids a few extra seconds to run away from a school shooter.
I think we might actually get to that point where we all know someone who was shot, but I hope to hell not.
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Post by nighttimer on Feb 18, 2018 18:36:45 GMT -5
Um, not exactly what I was addressing when I asked what the point of starting yet another mass murder thread where we retread the same tired old arguments we have in the last four or five such threads. Here's the point. People are dying. Doing nothing is not an option. At best it's lazy. At worse it's contemptible. If you're tired of retreading the same tired old arguments, that should be impetus to find some fresh, new arguments. We can throw up our hands and say "Nothing can be done" and nothing will be done. How's that working out for America? Then we'll be right back here having these useless discussions about shit we are unwilling or too goddamned cynical to do a thing about. And more kids will be dead who shouldn't be. So yeah, we could stop having these discussions in threads like this. Hell, we could even go one step further and follow the advice of one Rebecca Jorgensen, a so-called "journalist" who says the best way to prevent mass shootings is for the media to stop covering them. Please. Just shut the fuck up and go away, Miss Jorgensen. If the media is to blame for glamorizing mass shooters, the gun manufacturers should be on Death Row for supplying them the means to commit extremely effective slaughter. But you won't see that article in the fucking Federalist.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 18:45:26 GMT -5
A lot of the survivors and mourners have made it perfectly clear --
They don't want to be left alone to grieve.
They don't want just "thoughts and prayers."
They want politicians to actually DO SOMETHING that might at least reduce the chances of another school shooting.
There is a movement afoot among kids to have a planned school walkout to protest until something concrete is done. I'd support my nieces 100% if they participated in a protest like that.
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Post by Christine on Feb 18, 2018 18:48:17 GMT -5
Sensible gun control? What's that? Personally, I see no need for any citizen to own a firearm that is NOT a pump action shotgun, bolt action hunting rifle, or a six shot revolver. When the only viable reasons for someone to own a high capacity, semi-automatic firearm are "Well, the 2nd amendment says I can" and "They are fun to shoot" it is time for a change. Yeah, they are fun to shoot. But so is heroin. Not a really strong argument, imo, because shooting heroin doesn't kill other people. Though I agree entirely with your assessment of the types of guns a person could, potentially, need. I agree, we should try to figure out why people want to murder other people (there are, I think, a myriad of reasons) but in the meantime, making it harder to do so is not "perhaps" a win, it is DEFINITELY a win, unless there is some reason we should be okay with innocent people, including children, being shot and killed. But this right here is really why I quoted your post, because I want to push back on it: I disagree entirely. I used to think this, actually. Part of my religious upbringing. But, imo, it's complete bullshit. All of the same music, television, movies, etc., are available and "lapped up" in countries where there is not the kind of violence we have in the US. And really, I think a lot of the shows we see on TV are based on reality--the fiction is based on the truth, and doesn't glamorize it. E.g., The Wire. Doesn't exactly make you want to grab a gun and join a gang. Disagree. Americans have been talking about it for a long, long time. Most Americans are in favor of heightened restrictions, background checks, and the like. I think the main problem with our culture in this regard is from nonviolent people who don't want to give up their guns, many of whom possess an unhealthy level of paranoia over them being "taken away," and an insidiously greedy (and imo, evil) gun lobby that feeds into their fears, as well as contributing millions of dollars to political campaigns. Another problem I think is that many people, no matter how shocked and appalled and saddened they are over events like these, tend to eventually just accept that there will be murders, mass-shootings, etc., because criminals and bad people exist and will continue to exist, in small numbers. But like (I think) Michael said, this is going to be a lot easier to accept when one is personally unaffected.
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Post by nighttimer on Feb 18, 2018 19:15:09 GMT -5
A lot of the survivors and mourners have made it perfectly clear -- They don't want to be left alone to grieve. They don't want just "thoughts and prayers." They want politicians to actually DO SOMETHING that might at least reduce the chances of another school shooting. There is a movement afoot among kids to have a planned school walkout to protest until something concrete is done. I'd support my nieces 100% if they participated in a protest like that. Indeed, and we can either join them, mock them or criticize them as a bunch of punk kids who aren't old to vote, but before we do, we better remember we CAN vote and if we're not doing anything to solve the problem we're part of it. Indeed.Malcolm X observed, "Usually when people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change." So get angry first and then change something so this shit doesn't keep happening. If the adults won't do it because they're bought and paid for or are moral cowards, then the kids will have to show us how its done. Because if thoughts and prayers are really the cure to the disease of gun violence, why does Trump need the Secret Service anyway?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 19:18:25 GMT -5
Here, if anyone is interested, is something else we can do:
I might write one.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 19:41:06 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 19:44:54 GMT -5
The word "hero" sometimes is overused. But for this kid, it isn't strong enough.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 20:22:54 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 0:40:21 GMT -5
The family of Anthony Borges, the kid who got shot blocking the door to protect his classmates, needs help with his medical bills, which apparently are huge. Don't even get me started on how pathetic our heath care system is that this kid's family needs to crowdsource his care. Anyway. Link in this tweet, if your are interested.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 10:17:13 GMT -5
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Post by nighttimer on Feb 19, 2018 19:29:56 GMT -5
Priorities.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 20:11:35 GMT -5
There is one thing about this atrocity that inspires me (as opposed to making me feel horrified and disgusted) -- the kids. They are freaking amazing. I'm gonna stop worrying that we have a whole generation who doesn't care about anything but snapchat and candy crush saga, etc. Looks to me like we've got some kids with remarkable strength and courage, who know how to stand up for a cause even while they are still weeping over a tragedy. I'm damn proud of them. They deserve better than they're getting from us older generations.
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