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Post by Vince524 on Mar 12, 2018 15:59:37 GMT -5
I think this kid has just as much right to speak as the other kids. I'll note also that some on the gun-rights side are quite disingenuously trying to silence the other kids advocating for guns control (they're too immature and traumatized to talk, you see), while championing this one pro-gun kid and using him for all he's worth. Either a kid's perspective is worth listening to, or it isn't. Either using their voices is exploitation, or it isn't. You can't dismiss all of the many survivors and other kids advocating for stricter gun control as just a bunch of immature kids who should just shut up and let their elders talk, and hold up this one kid as "see? see? this kid totes agrees with us and he's a survivor so we should totes listen to him." It's unbelievably hypocritical. Sure, all the kids should be heard. Being victims gives them a special perspective, but that doesn't mean they have all the answers. Including this kid. But I admire this one because he is trying to meet with people on both sides, he's being polite. I also note that many are keeping him out of the conversation from the other side. He mentioned something on Twitter about Harvard hosting something and he's not invited, while some of the other kids are angry with him for being able to go to the white house, but this kid gets that you attract more bees with honey. One of the other kids boasted about hanging up on Trump. So, okay Trump's an ass, but he's president. Hanging up doesn't help. Same with accusing Rubio of being in the pocket of the NRA. You may really think that, but that's not going to make him want to listen to you or give your ideas credence.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 16:08:43 GMT -5
To note, MOST of the kids are being pretty polite and remarkably patient -- and this is while they are actually receiving death threats from gun nuts (which I'm betting the pro-gun kid is not). I'm following bunches of them on twitter, so I'm pretty up on this. It is entirely not correct to single out this one kid as being the only polite, mature one.
I also have to note that this kid got in a couple of not-so-mature spats with his classmates on Twitter -- I think he's a pretty typical kid of his age. I'll try to hunt down his tweets later, but I think your assessment of him as being heads and shoulders more mature than his classmates is not accurate. (And I gotta be honest, I'm pretty sure I'd end up hanging up on a phone conversation with Trump, so I can't bring myself to blame a 17-year old for doing it.)
But yes, they all, including this kid, have the right to speak up. They've earned their opinions the hard way. And yes, I agree that doesn't necessarily make them either right or wrong on the best way to handle things.
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Post by Amadan on Mar 12, 2018 19:14:58 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry Vince. I'm not buying that he's just so much nicer and more polite than his anti-gun classmates.
For the most part, the kids who are advocating for gun control are being reasonable and rational. Sure, you might see some being emotional, angry, agitated... 'cause, you know, they saw a whole bunch of their classmates get killed in front of them. But they are not a bunch of wacko gun-grabbing leftists screaming that Trump is a Nazi.
That doesn't mean I agree with them, but I think your biases are showing. You think the kid you agree with is a stellar example of maturity and reasonable discourse, while the others are just dumb, traumatized kids. I think all of them are kids, perhaps prematurely awakened to a heightened degree of political awareness, but none of them are behaving either atrociously or precociously.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 12, 2018 21:29:51 GMT -5
I think this kid has just as much right to speak as the other kids. I'll note also that some on the gun-rights side are quite disingenuously trying to silence the other kids advocating for guns control (they're too immature and traumatized to talk, you see), while championing this one pro-gun kid and using him for all he's worth. Either a kid's perspective is worth listening to, or it isn't. Either using their voices is exploitation, or it isn't. You can't dismiss all of the many survivors and other kids advocating for stricter gun control as just a bunch of immature kids who should just shut up and let their elders talk, and hold up this one kid as "see? see? this kid totes agrees with us and he's a survivor so we should totes listen to him." It's unbelievably hypocritical. Sure, all the kids should be heard. Being victims gives them a special perspective, but that doesn't mean they have all the answers. Including this kid. But I admire this one because he is trying to meet with people on both sides, he's being polite. I also note that many are keeping him out of the conversation from the other side. He mentioned something on Twitter about Harvard hosting something and he's not invited, while some of the other kids are angry with him for being able to go to the white house, but this kid gets that you attract more bees with honey. One of the other kids boasted about hanging up on Trump. So, okay Trump's an ass, but he's president. Hanging up doesn't help. Same with accusing Rubio of being in the pocket of the NRA. You may really think that, but that's not going to make him want to listen to you or give your ideas credence. Hey, Vince? Your bias is showing. You admire Kyle Kashuv because he's playing nice, saying "sir" and "ma'am" and being conversational with Donald, Melania, Orrin, Paul and Chuck about increasing security at schools and deepening background checks. Fine. But Kyle doesn't seem to have much to say about AR-15's. Nothing at all really, so besides jockeying for a future position in some Congresscritter's office, what is so goddamn admirable about this kid over Emma Gonzalez and David Hogg? You attract more bees with honey? Well, that's great if you want to attract bees, but the only honey someone like Rubio or Trump give a damn about is the honey in the form of money that the NRA pumps into their campaigns. Rubio IS in the the pocket of the NRA or are you trying to suggest the NRA has contributed $3,303,355 to Little Marco because he's so gosh-darned cute? Nobody gives that kind of paper to a politician unless they are trying to get something out of them and Rubio has been the NRA's butt boy since he first took elected office. No sweet words or harsh ones either are going to make Marco slip the leash of his NRA masters. Who wants to attract bees unless you're a beekeeper? Fuck the bees and fuck the honey. I want kids to stop dying at the hands of 18-year old FUCKS like Nicholas Cruz who legally can't drink but they can stop at a gun store and buy anything in there they can put on a Visa card. Trump mocked Sen. Pat Toomey as being afraid of the NRA and what happens when he rolls out his proposals today? Gone is the restriction on 18-year-olds being able to purchase military-style hardware because Wayne LaPierre and company reminded Trump he's not the boss; they're the boss. Smile wide, shake hands, don't raise your voice, ask nicely and don't make the adults feel uncomfortable. Parrot what they say and make nice. You know what that gets done, Vince? Nothing, which is exactly what Trump and the GOP and you want to get done. Nothing is going to make Trump or Rubio listen to any of these kids except getting rid of both of their worthless asses and as that's not an immediate possibility, I'll settle for getting rid of every other Republican who has whored themselves out to the NRA gun pimps. That's my bias showing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 21:57:03 GMT -5
This isn't one of the spats I referred to (I'm all tuckered out and too lazy to hunt them down tonight), but to my mind Mr. Polite is being a bit of a smug prick in this post, and his classmate is calling him out on it.
another gratuitous "I won't be at the March, I'll be at the White House, nyah nyah" post (he has several of these).
I don't like him much here, either.
Is it just me, or does this sound like Trump drafted it?
(The "heat" his classmates are currently taking is literally fucking death threats from gun nuts with assault rifles. Why do I think that the "heat" Eddie Haskell here is taking from gun control advocates likely does not consist of such threats?)
oh, he's modest, too...
Okay, he's just a kid. Not surprising he's not totally mature. But just saying, if I were in high school, I doubt I'd want to sit at this kid's lunch table.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 13, 2018 21:19:08 GMT -5
I'm sure there is a far-out Lefty who is running for elected office trying to make hay by hating on Kyle Kashuv, but I know there's a far-out Righty who is running for elected office trying to make hay by hating on Emma Gonzalez and David Hogg. What is it about the GOP that attracts these sort of assholes? Besides it seems to welcome them with open arms, that is...
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 14, 2018 11:38:27 GMT -5
The kids are STILL alright.These kids have more heart, more courage, more BALLS than 99.9 of the bought-and-sold political whores in Washington (and yes, that does includes Democrats who are too chickenshit to make gun control a major priority) and they get it. Nothing is going to change unless they raise their voices, demand accountability from the so-called "adults" and take on the NRA and their propaganda. We should be proud of them.
“It's the action, not the fruit of the action, that's important. You have to do the right thing. It may not be in your power, may not be in your time, that there'll be any fruit. But that doesn't mean you stop doing the right thing. You may never know what results come from your action. But if you do nothing, there will be no result.” ― Mahatma Gandhi
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 11:52:02 GMT -5
I'm very proud of them.
I hope that the upcoming group of youth voters defies the stereotype of recent decades and turns up at the polls. And they just might. I've been terribly impressed that the teens and tweens in my life seem extremely aware of the news and political issues.
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Post by Vince524 on Mar 14, 2018 12:01:05 GMT -5
I'm very proud of them. I hope that the upcoming group of youth voters defies the stereotype of recent decades and turns up at the polls. And they just might. I've been terribly impressed that the teens and tweens in my life seem extremely aware of the news and political issues. I think that's always been the case where some kids are very aware and some kids are clueless. I'll admit I was in the clueless crowd back then. In high school, I couldn't even tell you the difference between the 2 parties.
I didn't become engaged until college.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 12:33:24 GMT -5
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Post by prozyan on Mar 14, 2018 12:45:41 GMT -5
Wonder if he was going to teach the Jet Li gun disassembly move....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 12:51:52 GMT -5
Wonder if he was going to teach the Jet Li gun disassembly move.... Well, he was going to, but the last time he taught that move, three students were killed.
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Post by prozyan on Mar 14, 2018 14:48:13 GMT -5
The real scary thing is I have met and personally spoke with some self-proclaimed "experts" that think such a thing is possible.
Guns and idiocy, the American way.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 15:01:03 GMT -5
I'm wondering what it's going to take for them to see it's idiotic. Unfortunately, it's probably going to take a couple of deliberate misuses of a teacher's gun that result in people dying, or a large number of accidents.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 14, 2018 18:40:34 GMT -5
I'm very proud of them. I hope that the upcoming group of youth voters defies the stereotype of recent decades and turns up at the polls. And they just might. I've been terribly impressed that the teens and tweens in my life seem extremely aware of the news and political issues. I think that's always been the case where some kids are very aware and some kids are clueless. I'll admit I was in the clueless crowd back then. In high school, I couldn't even tell you the difference between the 2 parties.
I didn't become engaged until college.
Politics are rather boring to most teenagers in high school. They're too busy with getting their grades up to keep mom and dad off their butt. Too busy with that monstrous zit that popped up on their forehead a day before the homecoming dance. Too busy trying to find the restroom where the punks don't hang out in where they can take a leak in relative peace. Why worry about politics? They can't vote so it's not as though anybody cares what they think. But that was a different time where politics seemed to work a little better than it does. Before money saturated the system and bought politicians like candy. Before a guy like Tip O' Neil and Dutch Reagan could sit down over a glass of good whiskey and hammer out a deal that didn't make either side feel like they had given away the store. Before there was a Fox News or CNN or blogs and vlogs and the world wide web and 24-7 news cycles and opposition research and snap polls and a Republican and a Democrat could sit down and break bread and work out their differences with a semblance of congeniality, civility and actual bipartisanship. But that was then. It is not now. Now it takes a hashtag like #17 Minutes 17 Victims and #Parklandstrong to wake us up out of our slumber. To make us care about something other than fucking sports and pseudo-celebrites. There's nothing I can do about Russia poisoning ex-spies who have relocated to England. Nothing I can do to stop the bloodshed in Syria. Nothing I can do about Trump throwing his own handpicked flunkies aside like wet Kleenex. Guns? Now that I CAN do something about. Just like the lone student in a North Carolina school who walked out to join the nationwide walkout. And nobody joined him. Shout-out and big ups to Young Mr. Blackman. There never has been and never will be a sea change in how things are done if you're depending on the masses rising up en masse. It doesn't happen. Someone has to say, " This is wrong and it should be made right." Then they have to say it to someone else and then a lot of someones say it to each other and only then the tree gets shaken. That's how you change the world. Or you start a trending hashtag and skip all that crap.
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