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Post by robeiae on Feb 23, 2018 9:01:15 GMT -5
From what I've seen, a fair number of conservatives seem to have walked over to the leftish side on this one -- I see a lot of "I'm a conservative and I own a gun, but..." I am glad to see it. What remains on the "other side" is not doing itself proud on this one, from what I've seen, nor are they doing the GOP any favors. Yes, there have been a fair number. And there's room for more, though constantly shitting on everyone on the other side with bullshit facts, obnoxious memes, and so on make that more difficult. As to the rest, I'm seeing what I'm seeing on social media. There's a ton of over the line bs coming from the pro-gun crowd, from stats like the one Opty pulled down, to idiotic memes about how--supposedly--no one was screaming for gun control when someone was shooting Repub congressmen, to absolute over the line trolling bs. But the anti--gun crowd has people doing this, too. I noted some of the fact manipulation. But they have their own bs memes. And they have their own trolls (or people who are simple assholes). I don't much care which one is "worse." You can do that analysis, if you so desire. What I care about is that all of this is bullshit, imo. The "amazing kids"* you seem so hell bent on glorifying ARE getting used. And the people doing the using care more about attention than they do about actual people, actual victims. I mean, one of those kids is specifically saying CNN was trying to tell him what to say, what to ask. Shouldn't he be believed? What the FUCK is up with that? In and of itself, that is some serious over the line shit by CNN. And I'm supposed to give a shit--in contrast--to Trump's little crib sheet? As if that amounts to anything, other than yet another mindless ragefest being used to divide people (and true enough, Trump's tweets are no different, because he's as much the poster child for bad behavior as any other single person, imo). And that's really what I'm getting at: rage, rage , rage, that's all that matters for most of the people posting their little digs and takes nonstop on social media. Well, rage and attention. And that's something kids have been learning, imo: it's all about the attention at the end of the day. The response to Parkland--by and large--is only confirming this. Is it any wonder that people think such shit is important, do stuff to get more of it (or flip out when they don't get enough)? Correlation doesn't mean causation, as we all know, yet people have owned guns for a long time. And there have been occasional spree killers for a long time. Yet, the uptick here--even if we factor out international terrorism related incidents--corresponds well with the rise of social media, I think. True enough, American gun culture has set the table for all of this, though. Take away that culture and the access it allows and everything is different, I think. Still, there are multiple facets here and imo too many people are more concerned with scoring social media points than they are with actually helping. And that reflects yet another problem--that circles back to the bs facts--that continues: thinking in sound bites. Example: I see a lot of claims out there about restrictive gun laws and the consequences of the same, mostly built on country comparisons. Depending on how one draws lines, one can achieve contradictory facts in this regard. Neither side is "right" when they toss up claims based on such manipulations, they're both wrong. For the record, imo there's a very clear and very limited comparison here that is hard to argue with: Australia. And that limited comparison--when explained--is tough for pro gun folks to overcome. And yet, it's general, grandiose, and FALSE claims that rule the day (again, on both sides). Anyway, I'm going to pry myself away from this discussion again, for a while at least. But carry on. * No specifics here, but understand that I know a number of the people involved here, from kids and their families, to teachers and theirs, to other people in the specific community (or involved with the same). And my son--who is a senior in high school--also has some links. Moreover, there's been other, non-publicized stuff that has happened, post-Parkland, some of it tragic in its own right. There are a lot of people whose lives have been impacted and not all of them have a voice (and for many, that's by choice). I'm not saying this with regard to any political issues, but rather with regard to how many of the kids are being used and turned into minor celebrities. I can't even express how much this upsets me, how deeply wrong I think it is.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 9:20:57 GMT -5
Are you following the kids themselves on social media? I am. I don't think they're "getting used."
They know they have a temporary platform, and being brought up in the social media age, they know how to use it effectively. Having just seen their friends slaughtered, they have motivation to do so.
Is it so outlandish to think teens -- who in another year will be old enough to die for their country or, hey, buy an assault rifle -- and who just saw their friends gunned down would have powerful opinions and a desire to make themselves heard? What, we should pat them on the head and tell them to cry quietly?
I remember being 17 pretty damn well. I had a mind of my own. I spoke out on stuff-- including when my parents disagreed. My almost 15 year-old-niece is speaking out on this -- and it isn't her parents pushing it (to the contrary).
Were the kids in the 60s youth movement just being used? By whom? E.g., the kids protesting against the Vietnam war. Were they just manipulated by anti-war adults? Or is it just conceivable they saw kids not much older than they were dying over there -- and seeing that they might be next?
It is not unreasonable to feel rage when you see people, many of them kids, gunned down again and again, and then hear politicians who take big money from the NRA propose arming the math teacher as a solution. It is not unreasonable to feel rage when you see prominent figures on the right suggesting the victims are actors or just being whiny.
It IS unreasonable to feel rage at the mere idea that someone might not let you play with your AR-15 anymore after a series of horrifying shootings.
ETA:
I actually think this might be good for the kids. Survivors guilt is a thing. This may help them feel like they made their friends' deaths count. They are getting trolled by some creeps, yes, but also getting a huge outpouring of support -- and results. Patting them on the head and telling them to hush and hug their teddy bears is not only not going to work, but I doubt very much it would be better for them than fighting to change what killed their friends.
A lot of victims' families and survivors of tragedies become powerful advocates. Sharon Tate's sister. My friend who lost a brother in Lockerbie. Both were young when the tragedies occurred. They didn't have social media at the time, but if they had, I am certain they would have used it to the full. They did use such media as they had.
ETA:
It's really difficult for me to imagine that 20 years hence, these survivors will be saying "oh, I regret being so young and foolish as to think AR -15 sales should be restricted. I'm so dreadfully embarrassed about it now."
To the contrary -- I think if I survived something like this, and I did not use my temporary and unique (if unsought and tragic) platform to do something to try to prevent future similar tragedies , it would haunt me. These kids are hard to shrug off without looking like an asshole. They know that. And they know their window is limited. They are using it. When they are adults (or if they were adults, or if they were not survivors), they can be ignored, scoffed down, etc. much more easily. Not now. It's clear they know that.
Also, I must note that locking yourself away to grieve is absolutely not always the best and healthiest thing, especially under these circumstances. Not every kid in the school is all over the media. Those who are, want to be there.
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Post by maxinquaye on Feb 23, 2018 11:56:38 GMT -5
For reasons I won't go into here, I have a very high degree of respect for teenarges and their capabilities. I've never been one to pat them on the head and think "how foolish you are, but I better humour you so you don't develop psychological problems". They're nearly adults, and they are both capable and driven when they want to be. It's just that they're also allowed to still be kids, and it's preferable that they can remain kids until they're ready to be proper adults. That said, I don't think banning AR-15 is really going to do anything. I don't think that's the problem here. And if AR-15s are banned, it's just going to be a symbolic thing that allow people to move on thinking that they've done something. Until the next shooting with AR-15s, because there are so many out there now. With one handgun for each man woman and child in the country, any shooter isn't going to have a proble getting armed. I actually think it would be more useful to restrict the sale of ammunition at this point. Only allow the sale of hunting ammunition to the public. That is, the heavier calibre that does not have the damage capabilities of the lighter bullets. Before you object and say that heavier ammunition is worse, then no - that is not the case. Lighter ammunution does something heavier ammunition doesn't do. Heavier ammunution actuall wounds less because it goes right through a body, leaving a "cleaner" wound. Lighter ammunution deforms on impact, turns as it moves through the body, and rips up uglier wounds. www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/why-the-ar-15-is-so-lethal/545162/
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 12:19:16 GMT -5
Alas. I am learning more about weaponry than I ever wanted to learn.
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Post by maxinquaye on Feb 23, 2018 12:31:45 GMT -5
My search history has gotten me on all kinds of lists. The perils of being a writer.
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Post by Vince524 on Feb 23, 2018 12:46:12 GMT -5
The problem, once again, is that everyone is shouting. One side demonizes the NRA, pro 2nd amendment folks, people who think the government doesn't enforce it's existing laws and just wants to play to a base and see itself doing something. The other side, calling kids who have been traumatized whiney for speaking their minds, (Ironically, people who would defend freedom of speech)saying they're just being used and a gullible little kids. Nobody wants to talk. The more you paint one side out to be heartless, the less that side is going to listen. That's basic. Also, why not talk about the fact that the government failed in every aspect in it's responsibilities here. The police went to this guys home 39 times. The FBI was called on him. Yet they did nothing. Also the armed school guard did nothing while these kids were being slaughtered. One of them, a 15 year old, shielded his classmates with his body. www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/21/587496899/army-awards-medal-for-heroism-to-3-jrotc-cadets-killed-in-florida-shootingI feel like nobody want to talk about that. (Which, by the way, should derail the idea that arming teachers is a solution.) I've seen a lot of people on Twitter using the hashtag #BoycottNRA Really? Are a bunch of people in the NRA doing that? Or a bunch of people who hate guns talking about it. I'm emotional about this myself. I've got kids in college, 1 in high school, one in middle school. It terrifies me that they could be next. But I want workable solutions, not a lot of anger being vented.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 12:55:22 GMT -5
Of course it's people who hate guns tweeting #boycottNRA. Why would it be anyone else?
And why NOT boycott the NRA? Their power and money is the biggest single reason we can't get any meaningful gun reform passed. And it's wrong to try to reduce their influence via a boycott? How so?
It seems it is never the time to talk about this, never the time to get angry. Where has quietly talking about this gotten us? Nowhere. The NRA succeeds in blocking or getting repealed the few sad little gun laws we have. Meanwhile, kids die, churchgoers die, music lovers die. Meanwhile, it's clear that arming teachers, pastors, and parishioners and putting guards on schools and churches and supermarkets and playgrounds isn't the answer. Meanwhile, the rest of the world with gun laws has far, far fewer gun deaths on a per capita basis.
I've been among those who calmly debated this issue in the past. Frankly, I'm done. #boycottNRA, all the way.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 13:26:08 GMT -5
Seriously --
Are we supposed to wait and hope Jesus stops the gun deaths if people pray hard enough? Or until bad people stop being bad? Or until humans evolve to have bullet-proof skin?
All we've heard, massacre after massacre, is "don't politicize this" "it's too soon to talk about it" "this could still happen because x, y, z so no point doing anything unless we can make it impossible for it EVER to happen" "this other thing contributed, and until you can guarantee that thing will never happen again, so no point talking about gun control" "but good guys with guns" "but muh second amendment" "Look -- SQUIRREL!"
The survivors and their families shouldn't talk about it because trauma and being used. The rest of us shouldn't talk about it because no standing or bias or politicizing or it's too soon.
No. No. No. The kids are right. Their families are right. This country is stupidly batshit about guns and a line has to be drawn. We have to at least try. The screaming you are hearing is a whole lot of us coming to that conclusion all at once.
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Post by celawson on Feb 23, 2018 14:28:18 GMT -5
I shouldn't have to write a disclaimer that this most recent shooting is horrible and tragic, but I'm a Republican so I can't be assumed to be compassionate or sympathetic to innocent children dying. Especially because I have respect for our Constitution, personal liberties, and for the right of self-defense. I have two daughters in school, one in high school and one in college, so of course I want our schools to be safe, from a selfish as well as a general humanitarian perspective. School shootings should never happen. That said... This immediate response of crying for more legislation and more gun control is not a rational response based on looking at the facts. It's an emotional response that helps people feel better. And that's not good enough. Nor is it a response that is deeply enough thought out for the complexity of the problem. Fact - California, where I have lived my entire life, has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation. gun.laws.com/state-gun-laws/california-gun-lawsHere is a description of our laws on assault weapons: The Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence has given California an "A" rating and graded it #1 in the nation in terms of the strictness of its gun laws. Yet in California, we have had recent mass public shootings, and the take-away is that our gun control laws didn't prevent them. Poor beleaguered Marco Rubio was fact-checked on his claim that gun laws wouldn't have prevented recent mass shootings, and his claim was found to be correct by the Wa Po, no bastion of the NRA by any means. www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/12/10/marco-rubios-claim-that-no-recent-mass-shootings-would-have-been-prevented-by-gun-laws/?utm_term=.4a6d9b0c8fc4No solution to this problem can be as simplistic as "legislate", because bad people will find a way to obtain weapons no matter what the law. A Constitutional right to self-defense is not something to be mocked. No solution to this problem will be found until we look hard into a multi-directional approach which includes fixing what is broken in our society. And what is broken includes: - raising kids in intact families with strong parenting and excellent modeling of what it means to be good men and women in our society - raising kids with respect for life, and that includes the fetus and embryo. The pro-abortion fanatics have eroded this through their years of zealous demanding of abortion at any time for any reason, and equating a developing human life to a cluster of tissue or a toe nail. Note, although I vehemently disagree with abortion, I'm more concerned here with the attitude towards it, rather than the fact that some abortions are legal. - raising kids who love and respect themselves. If you don't have that, you can't love and respect others. - thorough enforcement of the gun laws already on the books - thorough and earnest investigation of tips from "see something, say something" - better security in our schools - thoughtful consideration of how best to implement gun violence restraining orders or No Gun Lists for people who shouldn't be allowed to have guns - increased attention to mental health for those showing warning signs Now, our federal gun laws may be lacking, and I'm not arguing against some further restrictions on certain types of gun and ammo. None of these things listed are easy. No one of them is sufficient. But one thing is clear - a lot more needs to be done beyond gun laws, and this vicious blame-game is not helping.
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Post by Vince524 on Feb 23, 2018 14:32:38 GMT -5
Of course it's people who hate guns tweeting #boycottNRA. Why would it be anyone else? And why NOT boycott the NRA? Their power and money is the biggest single reason we can't get any meaningful gun reform passed. And it's wrong to try to reduce their influence via a boycott? How so? It seems it is never the time to talk about this, never the time to get angry. Where has quietly talking about this gotten us? Nowhere. The NRA succeeds in blocking or getting repealed the few sad little gun laws we have. Meanwhile, kids die, churchgoers die, music lovers die. Meanwhile, it's clear that arming teachers, pastors, and parishioners and putting guards on schools and churches and supermarkets and playgrounds isn't the answer. Meanwhile, the rest of the world with gun laws has far, far fewer gun deaths on a per capita basis. I've been among those who calmly debated this issue in the past. Frankly, I'm done. #boycottNRA, all the way. So you're now boycotting them? boy·cott
/ˈboiˌkät/
verb
verb: boycott; 3rd person present: boycotts; past tense: boycotted; past participle: boycotted; gerund or present participle: boycotting
1.
withdraw from commercial or social relations with (a country, organization, or person) as a punishment or protest.
Did you have much of a relationship before this shooting? Or the last one?
So I also read the Enterprise will no longer offer discounts to NRA members. So will that make NRA members more sympathetic?
Nothing says we don't blame all gun owners and want common sense solutions like trying to punish all gun owners.
But yes, let's keep yelling at each other and solve nothing. It's worked so far.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 14:44:42 GMT -5
Of course it's people who hate guns tweeting #boycottNRA. Why would it be anyone else? And why NOT boycott the NRA? Their power and money is the biggest single reason we can't get any meaningful gun reform passed. And it's wrong to try to reduce their influence via a boycott? How so? It seems it is never the time to talk about this, never the time to get angry. Where has quietly talking about this gotten us? Nowhere. The NRA succeeds in blocking or getting repealed the few sad little gun laws we have. Meanwhile, kids die, churchgoers die, music lovers die. Meanwhile, it's clear that arming teachers, pastors, and parishioners and putting guards on schools and churches and supermarkets and playgrounds isn't the answer. Meanwhile, the rest of the world with gun laws has far, far fewer gun deaths on a per capita basis. I've been among those who calmly debated this issue in the past. Frankly, I'm done. #boycottNRA, all the way. So you're now boycotting them? boy·cott
/ˈboiˌkät/
verb
verb: boycott; 3rd person present: boycotts; past tense: boycotted; past participle: boycotted; gerund or present participle: boycotting
1.
withdraw from commercial or social relations with (a country, organization, or person) as a punishment or protest.
Did you have much of a relationship before this shooting? Or the last one?
So I also read the Enterprise will no longer offer discounts to NRA members. So will that make NRA members more sympathetic?
Nothing says we don't blame all gun owners and want common sense solutions like trying to punish all gun owners.
But yes, let's keep yelling at each other and solve nothing. It's worked so far.
I wrote to Amazon this morning and told them I was canceling my Prime membership unless they ended their relationship with the NRA. (And I will -- I previously ended my DirectTV because they continued to advertise with Sean Hannity despite his despicable pursuit of the Seth Rich conspiracy.) Amazon happens to be the only company I know of that deals with the NRA, so that's all I can do. But already a number of corporations, including three major rental car companies, have ended their partnershps with the NRA because of this movement. By the way, I've posted a few examples of people targeting the teenage victims, including some prominent people. I've got more, too (not counting the anonymous trolls.) You "both sides" folks want to post some examples of meanie-mcmeanieness you think is comparable? And on the Marco Rubio thing -- please. He gets some points for actually facing questions from those kids. I give him that credit, because he was one of the few. (His responses, not so much. ) But one of the most preposterous things I've seen this last couple of days is the "OH, TEH TEENAGERSS IS BEING ALL MEEEEAN TO MARCO RUBIO!" Puh-leaze. He's a politician who takes money from the NRA, and if he can't handle tough questions from teenage massacre survivors, he's got no business in office.
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Post by Optimus on Feb 23, 2018 18:43:51 GMT -5
I know Rock is joking here, but he makes a good point. At this point, we'll never get rid of hundreds of millions of guns that are already out there. But, if we were to make bullets prohibitively expensive, it could very well drastically cut down on people's access to them and willingness to use them.
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Post by nighttimer on Feb 25, 2018 0:33:49 GMT -5
Gun control or not, I still hold the problem is more cultural than anything. Deaths by knife outnumber deaths by rifle by almost 5-1. Bottom line is Americans seem to love killing each other for some reason. Actually, the bottom line is you didn't provide a link to your "deaths-by-knife-outnumber-deaths-by-rifle-almost-five-to-one." That's both disingenuous and lazy. The bottom line is this thread is not about deaths by knives vs deaths by rifles and I should know. We're talking about mass shootings in the United States of Gun Crazy America. What you don't want to talk about are solutions. What you do want to talk about is you and Don don't have any but insist any other one is bad. The bottom line is Stephen Paddock can't carry off the deadliest shooting spree in this country's blood-drenched history where 58 people are killed and 851 wounded with 422 by gunshot without an AR-15. The biggest knife in the world can't kill like that. The bottom line is as Chris Rock quipped recently over the specious "knives-kill-more-than-guns" argument, "If 100 people ever got stabbed at the same time, in the same place, by the same person, you know what that would mean? Ninety-seven people deserve to die." A knife-wielding running man might be able to stab 100 people. An AR-15 wielding man can walk and kill them all. The problem, once again, is that everyone is shouting. One side demonizes the NRA, pro 2nd amendment folks, people who think the government doesn't enforce it's existing laws and just wants to play to a base and see itself doing something. The other side, calling kids who have been traumatized whiney for speaking their minds, (Ironically, people who would defend freedom of speech)saying they're just being used and a gullible little kids. Nobody wants to talk. The more you paint one side out to be heartless, the less that side is going to listen. That's basic. Also, why not talk about the fact that the government failed in every aspect in it's responsibilities here. The police went to this guys home 39 times. The FBI was called on him. Yet they did nothing. Also the armed school guard did nothing while these kids were being slaughtered. One of them, a 15 year old, shielded his classmates with his body. www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/21/587496899/army-awards-medal-for-heroism-to-3-jrotc-cadets-killed-in-florida-shootingI feel like nobody want to talk about that. (Which, by the way, should derail the idea that arming teachers is a solution.) I've seen a lot of people on Twitter using the hashtag #BoycottNRA Really? Are a bunch of people in the NRA doing that? Or a bunch of people who hate guns talking about it. I'm emotional about this myself. I've got kids in college, 1 in high school, one in middle school. It terrifies me that they could be next. But I want workable solutions, not a lot of anger being vented. People should be angry and they should be allowed to vent it. Hell, if I were one of those Parkland parents I'd be asking why the hell shouldn't I be angry and why the hell aren't you? The National Rifle Association should be demonized. They're doing the devil's work in Making America Safe Again for Spree Killers. It's not dogging out the NRA to suggest they've sure done a lot to make it easy for fuckwits like Nick Cruz to get his dirty mitts on some serious artillery. It's false to suggest the NRA and the Parkland school shooting survivors occupy equal amounts of the moral high ground. Until a week ago, not one of those kids were thinking about the NRA. They were thinking about grades, crushes, the next party, and how soon will they get laid. The NRA made it easy for a sick little wank rag to kill. They deserve to be blamed for that since the NRA loves to brag about how they are protecting freedom by offering up the lives of innocents to feed the 2nd Amendment's vampiric thirst for yet more blood and sacrifice. Wayne LaPierre, Dana Loesch, and Ted Nugent can all go to hell and so can everyone else in the NRA who insists their divine right to possess as many guns as they should ever want is more essential to America's continued greatness than a child's right to simply live. Any country which places a higher value on a fucking gun than a human being's life isn't worthy of being considered a good, moral or great country. It is a nation of gangsters, thugs, and businessmen and should be scorned as nothing but a pit of greed, depravity and supreme selfishness.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 25, 2018 12:08:19 GMT -5
What you don't want to talk about are solutions. Yep, there I am avoiding that whole conversation about solutions..... What have you contributed to this aside from your outrage? Your solutions? They seem to be absent.
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Post by Vince524 on Feb 25, 2018 14:57:53 GMT -5
The problem, once again, is that everyone is shouting. One side demonizes the NRA, pro 2nd amendment folks, people who think the government doesn't enforce it's existing laws and just wants to play to a base and see itself doing something. The other side, calling kids who have been traumatized whiney for speaking their minds, (Ironically, people who would defend freedom of speech)saying they're just being used and a gullible little kids. Nobody wants to talk. The more you paint one side out to be heartless, the less that side is going to listen. That's basic. Also, why not talk about the fact that the government failed in every aspect in it's responsibilities here. The police went to this guys home 39 times. The FBI was called on him. Yet they did nothing. Also the armed school guard did nothing while these kids were being slaughtered. One of them, a 15 year old, shielded his classmates with his body. www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/21/587496899/army-awards-medal-for-heroism-to-3-jrotc-cadets-killed-in-florida-shootingI feel like nobody want to talk about that. (Which, by the way, should derail the idea that arming teachers is a solution.) I've seen a lot of people on Twitter using the hashtag #BoycottNRA Really? Are a bunch of people in the NRA doing that? Or a bunch of people who hate guns talking about it. I'm emotional about this myself. I've got kids in college, 1 in high school, one in middle school. It terrifies me that they could be next. But I want workable solutions, not a lot of anger being vented. People should be angry and they should be allowed to vent it. Hell, if I were one of those Parkland parents I'd be asking why the hell shouldn't I be angry and why the hell aren't you? The National Rifle Association should be demonized. They're doing the devil's work in Making America Safe Again for Spree Killers. It's not dogging out the NRA to suggest they've sure done a lot to make it easy for fuckwits like Nick Cruz to get his dirty mitts on some serious artillery. It's false to suggest the NRA and the Parkland school shooting survivors occupy equal amounts of the moral high ground. Until a week ago, not one of those kids were thinking about the NRA. They were thinking about grades, crushes, the next party, and how soon will they get laid. The NRA made it easy for a sick little wank rag to kill. They deserve to be blamed for that since the NRA loves to brag about how they are protecting freedom by offering up the lives of innocents to feed the 2nd Amendment's vampiric thirst for yet more blood and sacrifice. Wayne LaPierre, Dana Loesch, and Ted Nugent can all go to hell and so can everyone else in the NRA who insists their divine right to possess as many guns as they should ever want is more essential to America's continued greatness than a child's right to simply live. Any country which places a higher value on a fucking gun than a human being's life isn't worthy of being considered a good, moral or great country. It is a nation of gangsters, thugs, and businessmen and should be scorned as nothing but a pit of greed, depravity and supreme selfishness. Venting anger doesn't solve problems. When you demonize the NRA, you're including in every gun owner and telling them they're responsible for the deaths of children, and by the way, work with us on a solution? If we're this angry at the NRA, who didn't kill a single person, why aren't we livid at the FBI, or the local cops who had it would seem 4 armed deputies stayed outside while the shooter was killing. There's a video, I saw it on twitter and can't seem to source it, but it's of a teen who ran in to save his girlfriend, saw a coach run in, unarmed, while the people with guns stayed outside. Or where's the outrage at the # of times cops and FBI were notified. It seems to me this shooting is an example of a failure at every level of government protection. But yes, let's continue to demonize the NRA as a whole and then wonder why those who want to keep their 2nd amendment, and see each call to 'do something' as a personal attack why it's not while attacking them. Like I said, it's worked so far, right? We complain that we've had so many school shootings, and nothing changes. Why not change the tactic which looks for changes. There's nobody out there that believes these school shootings are good or acceptable. Have a conversation that includes everyone, not a witch hunt.
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