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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 11:33:48 GMT -5
Do we have a thread yet to discuss Trump's agreeing to meet with Kim Jong Un? As I'm sure you all know by now, Trump agreed to meet with Kim Jong Un, a step he bragged about as an historic meeting previous presidents had failed to accomplish. abcnews.go.com/Politics/major-announcement-coming-south-korea-north-korea-trump/story?id=53621671Except, of course, that previous presidents have all had that opportunity over the decades and ultimately chose to pass on it, declining to grant North Korea that kind of legitimacy. time.com/5192579/trump-meets-kim-jong-un-north-korea/IMO, Trump doing so now is a horrendous decision for any number of reasons: 1) it sends a message that kookpot demagogues need only to get nukes to be regarded as diplomatic peers of the U.S. 2) pfft, N.Korea isn't going to agree to de-nuke itself. Kim Jong Un knows he's a dead man if he does that. He's playing Trump. 3) Trump's state department is woefully short handed, and Trump refuses to listen to any experts who actually know something about the history and issues at stake. 4) a short-tempered, erratic, impulse-control challenged, know-nothing talking one-on-one with Kim Jong Un? What can go wrong? Also worth noting -- at a rally last night, Trump led boos against U.S. representatives and news media -- but stopped the crowd booing against Kim Jong Un. www.mediaite.com/tv/trump-stops-crowd-from-booing-kim-jong-un-we-have-to-be-very-nice-lets-see-what-happens/ |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 11:38:48 GMT -5
It is continually stunning to me how Trump disses and alienates democracies and all of our allies, yet praises and grants legitimacy to corrupt demagogues and dictators.
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Post by Don on Mar 12, 2018 11:49:49 GMT -5
I thought Nixon's trip to China was a terrible idea, too. Regimes with such horrible human rights records aren't deserving of recognition, IMO. Despite that, these days it's seen as part of his legacy.
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Post by robeiae on Mar 12, 2018 12:51:33 GMT -5
It is continually stunning to me how Trump disses and alienates democracies and all of our allies, yet praises and grants legitimacy to corrupt demagogues and dictators. It's not all that stunning, imo. After all, there have been a lot of people willing to play footsie with corrupt leaders, while simultaneously running down allies and, in fact, the US itself. See, for instance, Ted Kennedy and the Soviet Union. Or a host of political leaders, past and present, in the US and their attitudes towards Israel/Palestine. Once again, it seems like Trump is just more transparent in his hypocrisy. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 12:58:39 GMT -5
I don't recall any past presidents specifically championing ideas like e.g., killing drug offenders or praising the notion of life tenure for presidents, while consistently running down democratic principles and free press.
It's world of difference.
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Post by robeiae on Mar 12, 2018 13:07:08 GMT -5
Well, I didn't limit my comment to just past Presidents. In that limited group, Trump may indeed stand alone.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 13:10:37 GMT -5
I don't recall any past presidents specifically championing ideas like e.g., killing drug offenders or praising the notion of life tenure for presidents, while consistently running down democratic principles and free press. It's world of difference. I mean, seriously, do you think that Obama, the Bushes, Clinton, or Reagan, tacitly or expressly, would have cheered gunning down drug offenders in the streets, as Trump did? That they would for a moment think "hell, yeah, president for life would be a good thing!" That for a nanosecond they'd think the answer to bad press was suppressing the free press? I don't think we should blindly defend our allies no matter what. If they do things we think wrong, we should call them on it. But I also don't think we should run down the very principles of democracy and cheer on the principles of demagoguery. I'll agree that sometimes our presidents have allied themselves with dictators, and to the extent they have, I disagree heartily with them. But I do think Trump stands alone. |
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Post by Don on Mar 12, 2018 18:46:02 GMT -5
I'll bring up Nixon again. The Nixon tapes revealed the Trump behind the man. I think presidents since then have been wise not to make his mistake. I don't think they've been any less power-hungry or less dismissive of the general population, or less willing to align with scum if it suits them. OTOH, none have been as transparent about it as Trump, that's for certain. But Nixon behind closed doors was cut from the same cloth as Trump.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 19:00:05 GMT -5
Yes, the guy who was forced to resign in disgrace had some similarities to Trump, except that he wasn't as bad, was way, way smarter, and had at least some checks on his power and at least some willing to stand up to him and make him accountable.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 12, 2018 21:46:04 GMT -5
I thought Nixon's trip to China was a terrible idea, too. Regimes with such horrible human rights records aren't deserving of recognition, IMO. Despite that, these days it's seen as part of his legacy. Regimes with such horrible human rights? You mean regimes that spy on its own citizens? You mean regimes that overthrow democratically elected governments and put strongmen and flunkies in their place? You mean regimes that engage in wars of empire and colonization? You mean regimes that commit atrocities and genocide? You mean regimes that create great disparities between the wealthy elites and the struggling masses? You mean regimes that deny due process or basic rights to its own citizens because of the color of their skin, which deity they worship or what political allegiance they hold? You mean regimes that destabilize other nations and meddle and manipulate their affairs for their own selfish ends? You mean regimes like the United States of America? You're right. Regimes like that aren't deserving of recognition. But they seem to get it anyway. |
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