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Post by robeiae on Apr 3, 2018 10:45:41 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Aug 17, 2018 20:07:55 GMT -5
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Post by michaelw on Aug 18, 2018 22:40:50 GMT -5
That's interesting, especially that some British Jews might choose to come to the US over Israel.
TBH, the situation in the US can't be that much better, because I think the issues w/ Corbyn and anti-semitism aren't hugely different from Trump and the way he's emboldened the anti-semitic faction of the far right.
And in any case, it sounds like much of the abuse being discussed here is happening online, which I suppose is something that can be an issue regardless of location.
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Post by michaelw on Sept 2, 2018 18:09:51 GMT -5
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Post by Optimus on Sept 2, 2018 23:18:15 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Sept 3, 2018 8:16:43 GMT -5
I find this all terribly disappointing, insofar as I kinda thought England--as a whole--had a much smaller anti-semitism problem than did much of continental Europe. Now it seems like such is not the case.
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Post by celawson on Sept 3, 2018 12:05:46 GMT -5
I have no doubt that many Jewish people would rather be in the U.S. than Britain right now. That's not surprising. It's seriously toxic there, and the toxicity is coming from even the highest levels of government.
Sometimes Trump brings blame on himself, and sometimes people do circus-like contortions to blame him. There is a difference between Trump stupidly not immediately speaking out against the tiny faction of alt-right in Charlottesville, moving our embassy to Jerusalem, and having an outspoken Israel defender as our ambassador to the U.N. (three cheers for Nikki Haley); and Jeremy Corbyn who is blatantly anti-Semitic.
If we are going to be intellectually honest here, we have to consider the BDS movement and the left's embrace of Palestine over Israel (both of which our universities strongly promote and reinforce - I've seen it myself walking through my daughter's campus) as well as world-wide Muslim anti-Semitism combined with the internet, as major factors here.
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Post by Amadan on Sept 3, 2018 15:29:28 GMT -5
Sometimes Trump brings blame on himself, and sometimes people do circus-like contortions to blame him. There is a difference between Trump stupidly not immediately speaking out against the tiny faction of alt-right in Charlottesville, moving our embassy to Jerusalem, and having an outspoken Israel defender as our ambassador to the U.N. (three cheers for Nikki Haley); and Jeremy Corbyn who is blatantly anti-Semitic. If we are going to be intellectually honest here, we have to consider the BDS movement and the left's embrace of Palestine over Israel (both of which our universities strongly promote and reinforce - I've seen it myself walking through my daughter's campus) as well as world-wide Muslim anti-Semitism combined with the internet, as major factors here.
I agree that Corbyn is probably personally more anti-Semitic than Trump. Corby seems to genuinely dislike Jews, while I doubt Trump cares about them one way or the other.
That said, you're doing some circus-like contortions yourself. Trump didn't just "not immediately speak out against a tiny faction of alt-right in Charlottesviles" - as far as I know, he has yet to make an unequivocal statement that that "tiny faction" is bad. The best he's offered is mealy-mouthed denunciations of bigotry and violence "on all sides."
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Post by celawson on Sept 3, 2018 15:53:07 GMT -5
I get what you're saying Amadan. But however you describe Trump's actions regarding Charlottesville, he is nowhere near Jeremy Corbin. I do not believe Trump is anti-Semitic at all. Certainly he has been a friend to Israel as POTUS, more so than Obama. I think he's a dufus at times, and he's tone deaf at times, but he's not an anti-Semite. Here's some news regarding the harm of BDS: www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-ms-lana-del-rey-postpones-israel-concert-20180902-story.htmlLorde was also bullied out of a concert in Israel last year by the same sorts of activists. The reason for this concert in Israel is to promote peace. The BDS movement is seriously wrongheaded.
EDITED TO ADD:
I've added a link to a Variety article about the same thing. If you want to see how leftist activists think of Israel, some of the comments on this one are enlightening.
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Post by Amadan on Sept 3, 2018 16:17:30 GMT -5
While I think there is an undercurrent of anti-Semitism running through a lot of leftist anti-Israel politics, opposing Israel doesn't by itself make you anti-Semitic, any more than being anti-Palestinian makes you a friend of Jews.
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Post by celawson on Sept 3, 2018 17:22:47 GMT -5
I agree with that.
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Post by robeiae on Nov 27, 2018 8:11:36 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Nov 29, 2018 16:03:37 GMT -5
Interestingly enough, CNN has apparently just severed ties with contributor Marc Lamont Hill, after getting hammered with complaints from the ADL and others about Hill's speech at the UN, wherein Hill said (my boldface): The boldface is the most problematic thing he said, as it's pretty much a call for the destruction of Israel (the only way there could be a free Palestine from the Jordan River to the Med Sea). It's phrase that's been used by Hamas, the PLO, and the like for decades. Hill claims that's not what he meant, but it's tough to believe he didn't know what he was doing; for people who like to see dog whistles, this is a tough one not to see (though many are trying).
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Post by nighttimer on Nov 29, 2018 22:04:31 GMT -5
Interestingly enough, CNN has apparently just severed ties with contributor Marc Lamont Hill, after getting hammered with complaints from the ADL and others about Hill's speech at the UN, wherein Hill said (my boldface): The boldface is the most problematic thing he said, as it's pretty much a call for the destruction of Israel (the only way there could be a free Palestine from the Jordan River to the Med Sea). It's phrase that's been used by Hamas, the PLO, and the like for decades. Hill claims that's not what he meant, but it's tough to believe he didn't know what he was doing; for people who like to see dog whistles, this is a tough one not to see (though many are trying). Yawn. Here we go again. Say anything even mildly pro-Palestinian and you're immediately branded anti-Semitic. Dr. Hill is entitled to his viewpoint and everybody is free to criticize it, but to deem his address to the U.N. a call for the destruction of Israel is hyperbolic, hair-on-fire hysteria and a wild distortion of what he said. We've reached a dangerous point in this country where any criticism of Israel will get you shouted down by the easily and permanently offended. Hill also said in his speech:
It is entirely possible to support Israel's right to exist and aspire for a Palestinian homeland. It is also entirely possible (but unlikely) at some point we will reach a point of political maturity where the evil acts of the Israeli government are condemned with the same ferocity as evil acts by Palestinian extremists are. To condemn former CNN contributor Hill for calling for the destruction of Israel (he didn't) while tacitly ignoring how much current CNN contributor Rick Santorum despises the Palestinians when he says, " If they want to negotiate with Israelis, and all the people who live in the West Bank are Israelis, they’re not Palestinians. There is no ‘Palestinian.’ This is Israeli land" is woeful in its intellectual inconsistency. If Hill is bad for what he didn't say, then Santorum is worse for what he did say. CNN should fire both of them or neither one of them. By the way, dog whistles are heard, not seen.
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Post by robeiae on Nov 30, 2018 9:22:16 GMT -5
Again, it's a well-known phrase. Hill knows the subject matter, so I think it's reasonable to allow that he knows the genesis and sense of the phrase. He's free to clarify, of course, but given that he's someone who hears dog whistles as a matter of course, I don't think he should be getting the benefit of the doubt, when he doesn't extend the same.
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