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Post by celawson on Nov 30, 2016 12:10:53 GMT -5
So Donald Trump already seems to be meeting his campaign promise of keeping American jobs. Carrier, an air conditioning company, (and also a unit of United Technologies which has huge defense contracts with the U.S.), reached a deal to keep 1000 jobs in Indiana, rather than moving to Mexico. www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/carrier-deal-trump-jobs-indiana/I have to go to work, and I can't read up on all the details nor comment much, but I do think it's impressive that Trump's already working on this before he is even sworn into office. I'm sensing there will actually be change with this administration.
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Post by Amadan on Nov 30, 2016 13:05:14 GMT -5
I'm not impressed yet.
He intervened in one company's decision, and we have no idea what inducements were offered. That's great for the workers at that plant, no doubt, but mostly it looks like a nice bit of PR. The President certainly cannot (and should not) negotiate individual deals with every company that is thinking of moving jobs elsewhere, so I want to see what he's going to do to address the underlying problem, rather than snatching a small victory here and there that he can take credit for.
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Post by Don on Nov 30, 2016 19:14:26 GMT -5
I think this is a good place to apply the Bastiat Rule. What are the unforeseen impacts of Carrier retaining those jobs in the US?
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Post by Don on Dec 1, 2016 4:29:25 GMT -5
"Ask and it shall be answered," I suppose. Two articles at The Atlantic take a Bastiat view of the Carrier deal from two different perspectives... both troubling for the long run, as Amadan pointed out. Why It’s So Hard to Know What to Make of the Carrier DealThe Sweeping Effects of Trump's Deal With Carriertl;dr: cronyism, moral hazard, regulatory capture, rent-seeking, extortion, negative state revenue impact, preserving the status quo at the expense of the future, and protectionism... all foolish from an economic standpoint, but with nice political payoffs. This is why we can't have nice things.
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Post by Grammy on Dec 1, 2016 18:57:28 GMT -5
Amadin Pundit, be honest....would this have been your response if this had been Obama's last gasp effort as he goes out the door? I very much doubt it. I would bet that you would be praising his effort and saying "See, I told you he could do it!" It's this hypocritical double standard that runs rampant through the liberal left. You can't help yourself and it may be the death of your movement, just as soon as the snowflakes grow up and find themselves in the real world.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 19:08:32 GMT -5
Amadin Pundit, be honest....would this have been your response if this had been Obama's last gasp effort as he goes out the door? I very much doubt it. I would bet that you would be praising his effort and saying "See, I told you he could do it!" It's this hypocritical double standard that runs rampant through the liberal left. You can't help yourself and it may be the death of your movement, just as soon as the snowflakes grow up and find themselves in the real world. Welcome, Grammy. But that being said -- Why not explain why you think the Carrier deal is a good one, rather than make (possibly erroneous) assumptions about the political beliefs of someone you (presumably) don't know and what you think he'd say if it were Obama making the deal, and generally slamming the "liberal left"? We welcome and invite perspectives from all sides here (if you cruise around, we have liberal, conservative and libertarian members, and people who voted for Trump, Johnson, and Clinton), but we do expect people to make and support points, and not simply take potshots. And all THAT said, I would truly be interested in perspectives on why the Carrier deal is a good one. I'm in the "I'm waiting until I hear more about it camp" at the moment -- I don't feel I have enough information yet to judge.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 1, 2016 19:35:28 GMT -5
Amadin Pundit, be honest....would this have been your response if this had been Obama's last gasp effort as he goes out the door? Yes. I would ask the same questions - exactly what inducements did he offer, and how does this benefit anyone other than the workers at that one particular plant? I'm not a leftist. And I've been grown up and living in the real world for decades now. If you actually mean to participate here, rather than making a drive-by, take the time to familiarize yourself with folks before snapping off kneejerk responses based on shoddy assumptions about our positions and affiliations.
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Post by haggis on Dec 1, 2016 22:36:22 GMT -5
I'm actually kind of wondering why someone who is not yet president thinks it's okay to use the power of an office he does not yet hold to try to force a business to act in a certain way.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 22:38:59 GMT -5
I'm actually kind of wondering why someone who is not yet president thinks it's okay to use the power of an office he does not yet hold to try to force a business to act in a certain way. That seems to me like a pretty reasonable thing to wonder about.
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Post by haggis on Dec 1, 2016 22:42:03 GMT -5
I'm actually kind of wondering why someone who is not yet president thinks it's okay to use the power of an office he does not yet hold to try to force a business to act in a certain way. That seems to me like a pretty reasonable thing to wonder about. Yeah. And I didn't pick on Amadin Pundit either.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 1, 2016 22:44:47 GMT -5
I can understand getting rob's vowels wrong, but mine are all the same. How hard is that?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 22:47:43 GMT -5
That seems to me like a pretty reasonable thing to wonder about. Yeah. And I didn't pick on Amadin Pundit either. That was also pretty reasonable of you. I can understand getting rob's vowels wrong, but mine are all the same. How hard is that? To be fair, Amadan Pundit, Robeieioaeiouandsometimesy has littered the place with so many damn vowels, I'm continually picking them off my clothes and having to vacuum them off the rug. No doubt Haggis's post got entangled with some of them.
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Post by haggis on Dec 1, 2016 23:09:11 GMT -5
I can understand getting rob's vowels wrong, but mine are all the same. How hard is that? Easy for you to say, but you haven't been pounding scotch since 5:00 PM either.
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Post by robeiae on Dec 2, 2016 6:02:43 GMT -5
One does not "pound" scotch.
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Post by Don on Dec 8, 2016 6:58:54 GMT -5
The Hidden Costs of Saving Those Carrier JobsAfter exploring the impacts of this deal, both intentional and those that are unintentional but foreseeable, the conclusion isn't a happy one. And as protectionism gains traction, let us not forget this part. Extra credit: When virtually every single economist recognizes the value of international trade, how has protectionism gained such traction in the US?
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