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Post by Optimus on Jun 27, 2018 23:44:48 GMT -5
Huh. I can't find anything so far with Bruce directly saying it. Just a ton of things asserting he did. Announcer: Nice, @cassandraw! That answer earns you 5,000 points! You are now are the current points leader! *audience applauds*
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 23:48:03 GMT -5
Huh. I can't find anything so far with Bruce directly saying it. Just a ton of things asserting he did. Announcer: Nice, @cassandraw ! That answer earns you 5,000 points! You are now are the current points leader! *audience applauds* ha! There are a fair number of quotes like that, I imagine.
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Post by Optimus on Jun 27, 2018 23:48:13 GMT -5
Announcer: Oh! I'm sorry @cassandraw , but your answer again didn't include any primary source information. In this case, a page number. Unfortunately, we'll have to deduct 2500 points from your total. Please try again!
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Post by Optimus on Jun 27, 2018 23:51:28 GMT -5
Also, I first heard this quote in 1991 (the pre-internet days!) at a summer basketball camp and they claimed the source was William James.
I always believed that until I studied under a legit William James expert and he couldn't find a source where James had ever said it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 23:54:04 GMT -5
pfft...like I'm gonna buy a book with a title like "No Excuses! How What You Say Can Get In Your Way" just to find a page reference!
I'm betting a bunch of people on the internet had the,Proverbs quote vaguely in their heads, but attributed it to Buddha or Bruce Lee or William James , or whoever they fancied, and then some self-help book guy decide to hell with attribution --just co-opt the quote.
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Post by Optimus on Jun 27, 2018 23:57:01 GMT -5
See previous post. The quote existed as far back as at least 1991 (also misattributed to the wrong author), and Dyer's book came out in 2009. So, he obviously got it from someone/somewhere else.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 23:59:57 GMT -5
Well, at least I got 2500 points out of it.
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Post by robeiae on Jun 28, 2018 6:51:02 GMT -5
See previous post. The quote existed as far back as at least 1991 (also misattributed to the wrong author), and Dyer's book came out in 2009. So, he obviously got it from someone/somewhere else. 1930, so far. What is certain is that this exact quote predates Bruce Lee.
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Post by Optimus on Jun 28, 2018 13:08:29 GMT -5
See previous post. The quote existed as far back as at least 1991 (also misattributed to the wrong author), and Dyer's book came out in 2009. So, he obviously got it from someone/somewhere else. 1930, so far. What is certain is that this exact quote predates Bruce Lee. Yay! And it looks like Rob is winner! The phrase still may predate this 1930 book, but I tracked down a digital copy of the full book through our university library. It is written on p. 74 (no other source attributed) and written in a way which suggests it may be the author's own wording. Your prize is that I have blessed good fortune to you and your family via the powers bequeathed unto me as a fully ordained Pastafarian Minister ("ministeroni"). May you and your family be touched by His Divine Noodly Appendage TM. R'amen.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 13:46:18 GMT -5
Not to quibble (okay, I am), but the author of that 1930 book is referring to it as an existing saying, not as something he's originating (indeed, he notes he rewords the "saying" "what you think, so you shall become" for himself as "What you think you become"). I still think Proberbs is the original source. ETA: To note, because the Bible is a translation, there are a zillion versions out there of every line. ( See e.g., www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Proverbs%2023:7 ) Versions of many of the statements in the Bible, perhaps especially in Proverbs, have become common parlance, passing from being Bible quotes to just being "sayings". And if you aren't all up on the Bible, you might not have a clue where it came from, nor feel any particular need to attribute it. " For as he thinketh within himself, so is he" " for as he thinks within himself, so he is. " I think almost certainly the "saying" 1930 guy mentions came from Proverbs 23:7. ETA: Even taking Proverbs aside, the author makes it clear he's quoting an existing saying. He doesn't pretend he said it first.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 14:33:27 GMT -5
We also have Proverbs 4:23. One translation: Be careful how you think; your life is shaped by your thoughts. www.biblestudytools.com/gnt/proverbs/4-23.html#But, yes, many translations, though all to the same general effect: biblehub.com/proverbs/4-23.htmFrom Proverbs, the idea no doubt made its way into a million sermons in the pastor/priest's own words, and from there to the lips of parishioners. And from there, into common use. (and alas, from there to dubious Bruce Lee attributions.) I can't sitting here, prove it. But I'm betting I'm right. ETA: (sure, one might quibble "but the Proverbs quotes are not the exact words as Opty's OP!" But then, neither is either version of the "saying" in the 1930s book.)
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Post by Optimus on Jun 28, 2018 15:19:46 GMT -5
Not to quibble (okay, I am), but the author of that 1930 book is referring to it as an existing saying, not as something he's originating (indeed, he notes he rewords the "saying" "what you think, so you shall become" for himself as "What you think you become"). I still think Proberbs is the original source. ETA: To note, because the Bible is a translation, there are a zillion versions out there of every line. ( See e.g., www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Proverbs%2023:7 ) Versions of many of the statements in the Bible, perhaps especially in Proverbs, have become common parlance, passing from being Bible quotes to just being "sayings". And if you aren't all up on the Bible, you might not have a clue where it came from, nor feel any particular need to attribute it. " For as he thinketh within himself, so is he" " for as he thinks within himself, so he is. " I think almost certainly the "saying" 1930 guy mentions came from Proverbs 23:7. ETA: Even taking Proverbs aside, the author makes it clear he's quoting an existing saying. He doesn't pretend he said it first. Not to quibble, but I specifically said that it "suggests" that it "may be" his own wording. Also, you keep dwelling on the Bible verses that "might" be the inspiration of the quote. I already know the likely Biblical and Buddhist inspirations for the quote, but I'm not interested in those because they're not the actual/specific quote that I asked about. I'm interested in the actual, specific quote, not the ancient texts that might have inspired it, because the actual quote is arguably more popular and the majority of "sources" attribute it to Bruce Lee. For example: www.google.ca/search?q=%22as+you+think+so+shall+you+become%22&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi60P-fkffbAhUG7oMKHZ0UBugQ_AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=588Also, he certainly does not "make it clear he's quoting an existing saying." He didn't put the quote in quotation marks (as he does with other quotes, sayings, and adages), so for all I know he's simply paraphrasing what he feels psychology at the time was promoting (perhaps he was even thinking of William James at the time). For example, on page 31, he mentions a Greek saying: Again, on page 32: In fact, the paragraph that contains the quote of interest starts on page 73 and, in full, says: (Note his dated use of double spaces and no Oxford commas. Ugh.) There are various other examples of him always using quotation marks when quoting people and when quoting old, unsourced sayings. He even put his own words in direct quotations. However, given the full context of the paragraph, and his consistent use of quotation marks for direct quotes and "ancient adages" throughout the rest of the book, this strongly suggests that "As you think, so shall you become," may very well just be him paraphrasing his understanding of psychological theory at the time, especially given that this was basically a (somewhat) psychology-based self-help book.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 15:28:47 GMT -5
Ah.
I still don't quite see why Rob wins the game, as his source is neither the origin of the idea nor the exact wording of your quote, and moreover the author clearly says he derived his quote from the Bible (which, though I guessed it, I actually didn't know), and there might be a multitude of earlier sources than 1930 that do the same (no reason, in other words, to think the 1930 quote is necessarily where the Bruce Lee attributors got it)...
but, hey, it's your game, so you can apply what rules you like and award prizes as you see fit. Play on.
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Post by Optimus on Jun 28, 2018 16:50:24 GMT -5
I still don't quite see why Rob wins the game, as his source is neither the origin of the idea nor the exact wording of your quote, He wins because he was able to find the earliest, legitimate, primary source that this quote could be attributed to and because games that run on too long aren't fun. However, I have also asked the great FSG to cover you and your loved ones in His Divine Sauce TM as well. So now you're both winners. Also, I did say, "The phrase still may predate this 1930 book..." which leaves the possibility that there could be an earlier source. However, I'm not sure what you're reading, but his source certainly does use the exact wording of my quote. So, you're wrong on that point. Also, I didn't ask for the "origin of the idea." I asked for the origin of the exact quote. Contract lawyers around the country are gasping at your error here. Again, the "origin of the idea" is irrelevant. I did know this because I'd already found those verses (and a similar Hindi verse, and a quote falsely attributed to Buddha, and another site claiming it was an old Rosicrucian proverb) in my frustrating Google searching the night before. I eventually gave up after I couldn't find any link/website that could actually cite a legitimate source to the specific quote, so I figured some smart folks here could crack the case for me. Very true, which is why I already acknowledged that several posts ago when I said, "the phrase may still predate this 1930 book..." Thank you and, FFS, you sure do know how to suck the fun out of something that was supposed to be light-hearted and fun. But, hey, party poop on.
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Post by robeiae on Jun 28, 2018 20:31:13 GMT -5
I still don't quite see why Rob wins the game, as his source is neither the origin of the idea nor the exact wording of your quote, and moreover the author clearly says he derived his quote from the Bible (which, though I guessed it, I actually didn't know), and there might be a multitude of earlier sources than 1930 that do the same (no reason, in other words, to think the 1930 quote is necessarily where the Bruce Lee attributors got it)... Actually, the source does have the exact wording of the quote. But you're right, there very well could be earlier sources with the same wording. But anyway, this is the money portion: Obviously, the inspiration for the phrase is the Bible, and also obviously, the author is talking about the quote "according to your faith be it unto you," which he then restates. And that quote is from Mathew 9:29 (KJV or Darby). I suspect he knows it's also a restatement of Proverbs, but is using the New Testament purposefully as his point of departure.
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