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Post by robeiae on Jul 12, 2018 15:49:33 GMT -5
The article: www.forbes.com/sites/forbesdigitalcovers/2018/07/11/how-20-year-old-kylie-jenner-built-a-900-million-fortune-in-less-than-3-years/The cover: "At 21, she's set to be the youngest-ever self-made billionaire." Uh-huh. But I don't mean this to be about Kylie Jenner. She's an easy target here, even as she keeps banking the bucks. Rather, I'm interested in the intersection of "self-madeness" and social media fame (especially given that I have a niece who is in this game and has banked millions already, before she has even turned 18). It seems to me that if you become insanely popular on social media and you manage to leverage that into a fortune in one way or another, that's all you, even if the driving force is simple stupidity of "fans." To me, it's not all that far from a Pet Rock. Yet, I don't know that this reflects the traditional idea of "self-made" at all. There's a distinct lack of boot straps, I think. Thoughts?
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Post by Amadan on Jul 13, 2018 8:00:06 GMT -5
The article: www.forbes.com/sites/forbesdigitalcovers/2018/07/11/how-20-year-old-kylie-jenner-built-a-900-million-fortune-in-less-than-3-years/The cover: "At 21, she's set to be the youngest-ever self-made billionaire." Uh-huh. But I don't mean this to be about Kylie Jenner. She's an easy target here, even as she keeps banking the bucks. Rather, I'm interested in the intersection of "self-madeness" and social media fame (especially given that I have a niece who is in this game and has banked millions already, before she has even turned 18). It seems to me that if you become insanely popular on social media and you manage to leverage that into a fortune in one way or another, that's all you, even if the driving force is simple stupidity of "fans." To me, it's not all that far from a Pet Rock. Yet, I don't know that this reflects the traditional idea of "self-made" at all. There's a distinct lack of boot straps, I think. Thoughts? Hmm. Until reading that article, I was barely aware of who Kylie Jenner was. But... now let me take a contrarian view. I actually find this... pretty damn impressive. Let's start with what she's actually leveraging. She didn't become super-popular and build this business just by being pretty. Look at those pictures. She certainly benefits from having won the genetic lottery (she's got model-like looks, she's the daughter of an Olympic athlete and half-sister of a famous celebrity clan), so yeah, she's not entirely self-made. She had a lot of celebrity and capital behind her when she started, an advantage most entrepreneurs don't have. But she is obviously very, very skilled at putting together a look. She knows makeup. She knows fashion. And she knows what appeals to her customers. And fashion and makeup are big business. Do those of us (particularly male) who don't really care about makeup and fashion find it a little silly that this is a billion-dollar empire? Sure, but what makes it so different from professional sports? Why should millions of people care so much about two teams of men throwing a ball around that it generates billions of dollars and makes millionaires out of everyone talented enough to be good at throwing a ball around? Kylie Jenner, it seems to me, has a talent, a killer eye, and great business instincts. The description above of her relatively lean operation that's pumping cash into her pocket like an Alaskan oil pipeline? If she were a guy selling watches or high-end electronics or something with a similar operation, I think Forbes wouldn't be writing about her with a barely-concealed smirk. Mark Zuckerberg got rich building a social media network for nerdy college students. She got rich building a cosmetics empire for young girls. This isn't just someone who got famous on Instagram and makes money off of being famous.
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Post by Optimus on Jul 13, 2018 11:18:24 GMT -5
Let's start with what she's actually leveraging. She didn't become super-popular and build this business just by being pretty. Look at those pictures. She certainly benefits from having won the genetic lottery (she's got model-like looks, she's the daughter of an Olympic athlete and half-sister of a famous celebrity clan), so yeah, she's not entirely self-made. She had a lot of celebrity and capital behind her when she started, an advantage most entrepreneurs don't have. In her case, given how much plastic surgery she's had (because, let's be honest, she wasn't very attractive before it) and the fact that her best-selling line of lip products is built on her lips which were also surgically created by her having had a shit ton of lip injections (which, coincidentally, she just had removed), "self-made" is arguably a very literal term for what she's accomplished (slightly tongue-in-cheek). Based on her interviews I've seen/read of her and the vids she posts on Insta and Snapchat, she actually seems to be quite stupid. I think the business acumen that has built her brand is likely 95% from her mom, Kris. The Kardashians likely wouldn't exist as a global, multi-million dollar brand of vacuous, bubble-headed twits were it not for Kris smartly leveraging her vapid daughters' looks and unique depths of superficiality. And, let's be honest, that opportunity would've never even happened were it not for the release of Kim's sex tape. To be able to leverage the sex tape of one of your daughters into a collectively billion-dollar brand is quite impressive. Kylie literally is famous just for being hot (after a fuck ton of plastic surgery), at least initially. She was trying to copy her sisters. I credit her mom with being able to spin that narcissistic straw into gold. Kylie's not smart enough to have done this herself.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 11:27:31 GMT -5
If you come from a hugely wealthy and famous family, by definition you are not self-made, IMO. You did something with the opportunities and advantages that arose from your immense privilege rather than sitting on your ass partying, but you are not self-made.
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Post by Amadan on Jul 13, 2018 13:43:09 GMT -5
Let's start with what she's actually leveraging. She didn't become super-popular and build this business just by being pretty. Look at those pictures. She certainly benefits from having won the genetic lottery (she's got model-like looks, she's the daughter of an Olympic athlete and half-sister of a famous celebrity clan), so yeah, she's not entirely self-made. She had a lot of celebrity and capital behind her when she started, an advantage most entrepreneurs don't have. In her case, given how much plastic surgery she's had (because, let's be honest, she wasn't very attractive before it) and the fact that her best-selling line of lip products is built on her lips which were also surgically created by her having had a shit ton of lip injections (which, coincidentally, she just had removed), "self-made" is arguably a very literal term for what she's accomplished (slightly tongue-in-cheek). Based on her interviews I've seen/read of her and the vids she posts on Insta and Snapchat, she actually seems to be quite stupid. I think the business acumen that has built her brand is likely 95% from her mom, Kris. The Kardashians likely wouldn't exist as a global, multi-million dollar brand of vacuous, bubble-headed twits were it not for Kris smartly leveraging her vapid daughters' looks and unique depths of superficiality. And, let's be honest, that opportunity would've never even happened were it not for the release of Kim's sex tape. To be able to leverage the sex tape of one of your daughters into a collectively billion-dollar brand is quite impressive. Kylie literally is famous just for being hot (after a fuck ton of plastic surgery), at least initially. She was trying to copy her sisters. I credit her mom with being able to spin that narcissistic straw into gold. Kylie's not smart enough to have done this herself. Okay, I have seen Kylie Jenner (and for that matter, the rest of the Jenner/Kardashian clan) on TV and Instagram precisely zero times. Like, literally I only know who they are because people talk about them all the time. I'll take your word for it that she's stupid and wasn't pretty before her plastic surgery. And of course, like I said, being from a celeb family is still a pretty big advantage. Fame-whoring may be a pox on our culture, but I just can't get indignant about it, since I still don't see what they're doing as inherently less useless than a lot of other big money-making pop culture phenomena.
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Post by Optimus on Jul 13, 2018 15:33:33 GMT -5
Okay, I have seen Kylie Jenner (and for that matter, the rest of the Jenner/Kardashian clan) on TV and Instagram precisely zero times. Like, literally I only know who they are because people talk about them all the time. I'll take your word for it that she's stupid and wasn't pretty before her plastic surgery. And of course, like I said, being from a celeb family is still a pretty big advantage. Fame-whoring may be a pox on our culture, but I just can't get indignant about it, since I still don't see what they're doing as inherently less useless than a lot of other big money-making pop culture phenomena. We're pretty much in agreement on the majority of these points. I was just pointing out that I believe her mother is the business savvy mogul behind the capitalistic juggernaut that is the Kardashian brand and not Kylie. You could probably get more neurons firing in a big ball of dryer lint than you could from Kylie. That being said, I understand why people have disdain for people who have nothing that could reasonably be considered talent somehow becoming outrageously famous and wealthy through nothing that most people would consider hard work or intelligence (e.g., pretty much every Kardashian, Logan and Jake Paul, Nickelback, etc.). But, the fact that they have some sort of appeal to legions of people with questionable taste yet pocketfuls of disposable income, and the fact that they are able to capitalize on that appeal to make shit-loads of money is something I can respect. I sometimes wouldn't mind being a rich-yet-talentless hack.
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Post by celawson on Jul 13, 2018 16:34:06 GMT -5
I think Kylie needs some credit here. She (or Kris) recognized the niche of lip makeup that was particularly suited for what Kylie was known for. Kylie invested money SHE earned from modeling. Whether or not she's an intellectual doesn't discount the fact that she recognized an opportunity and has made the right moves to capitalize on it. I do think Kris is the brains behind a lot of the Kardashian income, but someone has to actually follow through on stuff to continue growing the company, and Kylie seems to be doing that.
BTW, my daughters know more about the Kardashians than I do (I don't know much) and they tell me this whole "Kris released the sex tape thing" has never been proven.
This social media phenomenon that we older folks have trouble comprehending is making buckets of money for a lot of folks, but it doesn't mean those folks don't work hard to meticulously create the image necessary to attract a following and continue to appeal to their fan base.
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Post by Optimus on Jul 13, 2018 18:02:56 GMT -5
I think Kylie needs some credit here. She (or Kris) recognized the niche of lip makeup that was particularly suited for what Kylie was known for. Kylie invested money SHE earned from modeling. Whether or not she's an intellectual doesn't discount the fact that she recognized an opportunity and has made the right moves to capitalize on it. I do think Kris is the brains behind a lot of the Kardashian income, but someone has to actually follow through on stuff to continue growing the company, and Kylie seems to be doing that. I'm pretty sure that Rob, Amadan, and myself have all acknowledged this? Maybe I missed it, but did someone here make the claim that Kris released the sex tape?
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Post by celawson on Jul 13, 2018 20:09:30 GMT -5
I think Kylie needs some credit here. She (or Kris) recognized the niche of lip makeup that was particularly suited for what Kylie was known for. Kylie invested money SHE earned from modeling. Whether or not she's an intellectual doesn't discount the fact that she recognized an opportunity and has made the right moves to capitalize on it. I do think Kris is the brains behind a lot of the Kardashian income, but someone has to actually follow through on stuff to continue growing the company, and Kylie seems to be doing that. I'm pretty sure that Rob, Amadan, and myself have all acknowledged this? Maybe I missed it, but did someone here make the claim that Kris released the sex tape? To clarify - I agree with Amadan more than the other posts here. Robo said "if you become insanely popular on social media... " like it's a passive process. And to some degree, obviously, the reality show kickstarted that. But it takes a lot of work and time and savvy to continue to grow that popularity, especially to the degree she has. And Robo said "...and if you manage to leverage that into a fortune". Well, managing to leverage that into a fortune IS the self-made part. The fortune doesn't automatically come with the popularity. I guess what I'm trying to say is that anyone who is "self-made" starts with some things that are gifts - whether it's intellect, drive, good fortune to be in the right place at the right time, creativity, good looks, education. Yes, some stories are more dramatic than others, but what really is the difference between going from dirt poor to millionaire, and from millionaire to billionaire? It's still a substantial change and obviously not every millionaire becomes a billionaire. And you, Optimus, kept emphasizing her stupidity and giving all the credit to Kris, and I am trying to say she works extremely hard at conveying a certain image, and she obviously knows how to hit the mark with that image, so yes, she should be given credit here not just Kris. She might not be what you consider an intellectual, but IMO she deserves an honorary degree in how to create and sustain a bankable image. That is a talent in itself, so I would not call her talentless like you do. The part about Kris releasing the tape was me misreading (or reading too much into) your comments about the tape. Sorry about that.
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Post by Optimus on Jul 13, 2018 22:18:51 GMT -5
And you, Optimus, kept emphasizing her stupidity and giving all the credit to Kris, and I am trying to say she works extremely hard at conveying a certain image, and she obviously knows how to hit the mark with that image, so yes, she should be given credit here not just Kris. You seem to be confusing or conflating "intelligence / business savvy" with "hard work." In my opinion, the two are orthogonal traits (i.e., they are mostly separate). I don't doubt that Kylie works hard to maintain her completely manufactured public image (I use the term "work hard" loosely, though). But, again, her mother is the one with the business connections and has worked as their business manager for the entirety of all of their careers. She is the one who is mostly responsible for crafting the Kardashian image and brand. And, it's obvious that she's damn good at it. I seriously doubt that Kylie, as a 16 or 17 year old kid (when she first entered the limelight and started her business career) was well-versed in the intricacies of supply chain logistics, manufacturing and production, and running a business in general. Do you think it's more likely that Kylie was a precocious, natural-born business genius with innate knowledge of how to build a multi-million dollar business empire, or is it more likely that a bunch of teen girls knew about her because of the show, liked her because she's hot and liked her style and that Kris, her mother and professional business manager with decades of experience in this, then came up with fantastic ways to monetize Kylie's popularity and capitalize off of the qualities that Kylie's fans admired, just like she'd already done with her other 4 daughters (especially given that she'd already started cosmetics and merchandising companies for her other daughters)? Given the Kylie was a child when she started her business, and that she comes off as being about as dumb as a rock, I think it's much more likely that Kris was and is the driving creative and business-minded force behind Kylie's cosmetics. Kylie is the face, Kris is the brains (further evidence of this is that several of the Kardashian clan's separate businesses have been sued for copyright infringment b/c they ripped off other people's work. For that same mistake to have been made in similar ways in at least 3 of the daughter's companies suggests to me that the same person or team was making the decisions for each (i.e., Kris)). To wit: www.businessinsider.com/kris-jenner-stay-at-home-mom-to-millionaire-manager-2015-5That does not at all imply that Kylie does not work "hard" putting on make-up, pouting her fake lips, sticking out her fake tits, and posting selfies on Instagram each day (well, "work hard" relative to that type of job. That version of "hard work" does not come close to actual hard work like that of ER docs, construction workers, firemen, or line cooks in restaurants, in my opinion but YMMV). But, that kind of "hard work" doesn't require brains or business savvy or much business knowledge at all. Kylie leaves that up to her mom (and I doubt she ever had a choice to begin with). Without Kris, Kylie and her sisters would likely have never had careers at all. Kylie might work hard (in some people's eyes, I suppose), but her mother is both smart AND works hard. That's the difference. I'm not hating on her success. I'm just a) pointing out that it came relatively easy to her, given the golden ticket of a situation she was born into and the fact that looking hot on social media is not a difficult job compared to actual difficult jobs; b) that she's not smart enough to have accomplished any of this herself and; c) somewhat lamenting the fact that our society rewards such vacuous dreck with obscene amounts of wealth when there are other people out there doing work and living lives that are arguably objectively much more important to society but who will never get that kind of credit, wealth, or fame for it. However, as I've said, that's the system we live in and I don't really fault people who take full advantage of it in order to achieve success.
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Post by robeiae on Mar 6, 2019 9:24:39 GMT -5
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