Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 20:18:25 GMT -5
As a side issue-- this particular puppy may also have been separated from its mom too young. It's not necessarily the owner's fault--it was a shelter pup, and who knows what happened to the mom and the litter. But she's had him a good couple of weeks, and he's only 9 weeks old now. I'm thinking he was only about 6 weeks max when she got him. Poor baby. So she told me the pup wasn't technically supposed to go outside yet, because he didn't have shots or just got them, though she takes him out anyway. I can't recall not being able to take our dog out, but then she wasn't so small when we got her. Dunno. I know I'm being Gladys Cravitz, but honestly, I just want to make sure this puppy is not unhappy. She's grateful about my puppy sitting offer, btw, but elusive on whether she is ever going to take me up on it. I can't make her do it, obviously, but I hope she will. I'd rather pupster piddled on my carpet than cried all day.
|
|
|
Post by haggis on Jul 25, 2018 21:38:54 GMT -5
Some doggie Benzodiazepines would probably help. Whaaaaa??? Medicate a dog because it needs interaction and attention? Wait, were you joking? You were probably joking, sorry. But some people DO this. ... Leaving a dog alone for a full work day, young or adult, is another thing that we do as pet owners that seems really messed up. Dogs are pack animals. They need their pack or at the very least their person. Crate or no crate. A crate is a training tool, not an 8+ hour babysitter. That said, a good thing I've heard about crates is that they simulate caves and they can be a safe space for a doggo. But the duration here is undoubtedly sub par, and the puppy is communicating that. That, and she's alone. Not joking at all. But just so you know, I am not, and never have been a doggie drugger. But if dogs are having anxiety issues, Vets can help by prescribing the proper dose of anti anxiety meds. I mean, it's not like these folks don't go to animal med schools or anything and learn how to treat dog psychological issues. Yes, of course it's far better when the dogs are not left alone. But I don't suppose Cass can convince that neighbor to give up her dog because she lacks the ability to spend quality time with her animal or quit her job instead. Her neighbor, not Cass. Not that Cass can't quit her job if she wants.
|
|
|
Post by haggis on Jul 25, 2018 21:44:41 GMT -5
cray , you are right, I did not say that correctly because the meds aren't replacing hormones. It's a steroid (I'm pretty sure) that strengthens the (prepare yourself) bladder sphincter. But the cause of the incontinence, per the vet, was likely because she was a middle-aged spayed female. (She's almost 12 and she's been on it for about 5 years.) Say, by the way, do you live in Cairo or Istanbul or thereabouts? Cray lives in the men's room now. Please don't let him out. It was just awful last time he escaped. He probably just has his watch on upside down again. I hope to hell he's replaced the urinal cakes. I mean, it was really disgusting in there before.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 22:01:07 GMT -5
Whaaaaa??? Medicate a dog because it needs interaction and attention? Wait, were you joking? You were probably joking, sorry. But some people DO this. ... Leaving a dog alone for a full work day, young or adult, is another thing that we do as pet owners that seems really messed up. Dogs are pack animals. They need their pack or at the very least their person. Crate or no crate. A crate is a training tool, not an 8+ hour babysitter. That said, a good thing I've heard about crates is that they simulate caves and they can be a safe space for a doggo. But the duration here is undoubtedly sub par, and the puppy is communicating that. That, and she's alone. Not joking at all. But just so you know, I am not, and never have been a doggie drugger. But if dogs are having anxiety issues, Vets can help by prescribing the proper dose of anti anxiety meds. I mean, it's not like these folks don't go to animal med schools or anything and learn how to treat dog psychological issues. Yes, of course it's far better when the dogs are not left alone. But I don't suppose Cass can convince that neighbor to give up her dog because she lacks the ability to spend quality time with her animal or quit her job instead. Her neighbor, not Cass. Not that Cass can't quit her job if she wants. To note, puppy might well be dead now if she hadn't adopted it. It's adorable, but it's an anonymous mixed breed from a shelter, among a million other anonymous mixed breeds in shelters. And to be fair to her, she seems to love the dog and want to do well by it. After I left my note with suggestions, she stopped up to introduce herself and pup and talk about it. She mentioned that she can't afford doggie day care, which is why she's made arrangements with the friend to stop in mid-day. Hopefully, she'll also take me up on the offer to help a bit, too. But I don't think she was being selfish in taking the dog -- he's better off with her than dead and lots of pups like him end up dead. He seems happy as all get out when he's with her -- he's a friendly, wiggly, little dear and he seems healthy and well-adjusted. He just doesn't like being alone, and my guess is he's giving the side-eye to that crate, too. My only question here is whether his little pupper life can be improved without her, say, quitting her job, and whether I can help. Cray lives in the men's room now. Please don't let him out. It was just awful last time he escaped. He probably just has his watch on upside down again. I hope to hell he's replaced the urinal cakes. I mean, it was really disgusting in there before. I mean, it's cray. He likely replaced the urinal cakes with poutine, and that's not gonna help.
|
|
|
Post by Christine on Jul 25, 2018 22:35:12 GMT -5
Not joking at all. But just so you know, I am not, and never have been a doggie drugger. But if dogs are having anxiety issues, Vets can help by prescribing the proper dose of anti anxiety meds. I mean, it's not like these folks don't go to animal med schools or anything and learn how to treat dog psychological issues. Yes, of course it's far better when the dogs are not left alone. But I don't suppose Cass can convince that neighbor to give up her dog because she lacks the ability to spend quality time with her animal or quit her job instead. Hence my increasingly dark and gloomy view of pet ownership. I'm not doubting the immediate efficacy of anti-anxiety meds, at least as perceived by humans. Dog stops barking, dog stops resisting going into cage and staying in cage for 8+ hours alone = meds solved the "anxiety problem." Congratulations, medication has modified your dog to suit your life! I understand you're saying help the dog deal with the circumstances she's been given. I suppose at the end the day, that's true. I'm just very stuck on WTF with these circumstances. No one seems to seriously question (outside of natural sympathy) whether this is seriously right or wrong. Dogs and other pets exist for us and at the end of day, we adapt them to suit us. This is grievous to me. Not trying to go full bore PETA or anything. And I'm sure my current thinking on the matter is due, in a not-insignficant part, to currently witnessing my own pup's end of life stage. (And she's such a champ! She never complains. She's as happy as she can possibly be. She's completely ignorant of the likelihood that I, over the course of 12 years, have accelerated her demise. )
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2018 22:56:10 GMT -5
Though that said, Christine, 12 isn't really a short life for a dog, is it? It probably depends on the breed, but they don't live forever. I get how you feel -- I cried buckets when our family dog died. But if it is any comfort, I'm not sure your decisions cut her life short, or at least by any great extent.
I doubt dogs put out in the wild (or on the streets) would live to 12. They wouldn't be alone and in a crate, but they'd be hungry a lot, and probably attacked by bigger animals and such. I get your issues with spaying...but not spaying means kabillions more dogs, and who's gonna feed 'em? where will they live? Yeah, probably nowhere. That's the trouble.
Ideally, everyone with a dog would be a nice farm family with lots of other dogs and space for them to run free, and hey, with no need to spay because more dogs are always welcome. But there aren't that many such families around, unfortunately. I think most families don't have someone home all day and don't have space/money for a pack of dogs. So what to do? I think all we can do is the best we can.
But yes, everyone should consider whether they are able and willing give their pet a proper home before getting one. That person I mentioned who was leaving his/her dog outside to howl alone on a tiny terrace all day? Yeah, I don't think that person should have a dog because that seems to me to be an obviously lousy thing to do no matter what. Seems to me that person doesn't really want a dog.
It really frosts me when people adopt a pet and then abandon it because they never bothered to think, oh hey, I have to take care of it or oh, gee it's not a baby anymore and I really only like kittens, not cats. I literally stopped being friends with someone long ago because she abandoned her cat at a shelter when it got big simply because she decided she really only liked kittens. Fuck you, bitch, you suck. It makes me mad even now. (I might have adopted it myself had I known in time -- even though I'm allergic to cats. Unfortunately, she didn't tell me she was doing it. I asked where kitty went, and she told me. I thought that was just awful. She doesn't deserve a pet -- any pet -- ever.
|
|
|
Post by Christine on Jul 25, 2018 23:54:33 GMT -5
Thanks Cass. It is true that 12 (she'll be 12 in October) is a good number of years for a lab. It's true dogs live relatively short lives. But it's the cancer that gets me mad, because otherwise she is not old. She still acts like a puppy, or tries to until her legs stop working. Of course I'm not recommending we let dogs loose in the wild, nor that people stop adopting from shelters, nor that we stop spaying/neutering them. We can't do that because of population problems, even though doing it can cause them health problems. Helluva conundrum but fewer unwanted dogs wins, imo. Way back when, humans basically invented dogs because we needed them (Neil Degrasse Tyson clip from Cosmos). In many ways we still need them - for work and for companionship, but our invention is our responsibility. So like you say, if everyone would start by considering whether they are able and willing to give their pet a proper home with proper care and attention, that would go a long way. Also cracking down on and having severe penalties for unauthorized breeding, which should be very restricted. Penalties for unspayed/unneutered pets running amok. And then provide further education to the public about what it actually means to have a dog, the proper care he/she deserves, the responsibilities, costs, etc., to maybe dispel some of the misconceptions that lead people to buy a dog and then abandon it. A general, widespread, moral belief that dogs shouldn't be in cages, or alone, 8+ hours a day, 5+ days a week, would make us a better society, I think.
|
|
|
Post by gaild on Jul 26, 2018 3:56:01 GMT -5
Christine, I really get why you feel guilty (?) about your dog's illness but I don't think you should. You are a caring person and there is no doubt that you have given - and are giving - your dog the very best care that you can. I always understood that sterilizing a dog or a cat actually protects them from other illnesses - but I could be wrong. I think we can only do the best we can and giving them a loving home is that. Sometimes, circumstances change. Take ours, for example. My hubby retired at the end of last year. He has COPD and we had to get out of the polluted, smoggy, oxygen-poor air in Johannesburg. So we moved down to the eastern Cape. The realtor sent us pictures of the house but did not include the backyard. When we arrived here, I understood why. It's a tiny (no exaggeration)pokey, very ugly, bricked-up, fenced in 'enclosure' that is just a few square meters. Hideous! In Jo'burg my kitties had a 1/4 acre of garden with lawns and trees to climb. Now they have nothing. The two of them just sit on the bricks and stare up at the neighbor's tree. It breaks my heart and oh god, do I feel bad for them. I have started lifting the bricks and building a tiered garden. There's a tree-feller here who says he can give me timber to construct some kind of climbing thing for them but it won't be anything like the lush space they had before. To be honest, though, I think this bothers me more than it does them. I'm interpreting their sitting there on the bricks as them wondering what happened to their garden. LOL. They could be sitting there, sniffing the air and daring other cats in the neighborhood to invade their turf. Or daring the Dachshund next door to put her nose under the fence one more time. Who knows what cats think, anyway. PS. Never trust realtors!! Never!!
|
|
|
Post by cray on Jul 26, 2018 7:20:56 GMT -5
cray , you are right, I did not say that correctly because the meds aren't replacing hormones. It's a steroid (I'm pretty sure) that strengthens the (prepare yourself) bladder sphincter. But the cause of the incontinence, per the vet, was likely because she was a middle-aged spayed female. (She's almost 12 and she's been on it for about 5 years.) Say, by the way, do you live in Cairo or Istanbul or thereabouts? i'm right!?!? wooot! :just imagine i inserted the dancing guy emoji here: this is the one time that having a dog has paid off!
|
|
|
Post by Christine on Jul 26, 2018 9:58:59 GMT -5
gaild, thanks for saying that. That IS a bummer about your new yard. Your musing about what your cats might be thinking made me chuckle - I've always had the impression that cats are much more independent and chill than dogs. I like their attitudes.
|
|
|
Post by gaild on Jul 26, 2018 10:58:09 GMT -5
>snoopydance<
|
|
|
Post by Vince524 on Jul 26, 2018 14:20:02 GMT -5
My dogs are all crate trained. Toby, the black lab has horrible separation anxiety. He just moved up with my daughter in Rochester and when she left him alone for 5 minutes to take the garbage out, he went bat crap crazy and chewed throw part of a wall, and bit into a door handle. Put a hole in it.
Lilly, the bulldog can't be left alone because she'll get into things and possibly eat things if she finds them, like socks. And that can cause them to get caught up in her system.
The puppies, are puppies. They go into the crate at around 8am. During the summer, they're usually out by 12ish. But once the school year starts, 730 to 2ish.
Sounds like she's got someone coming to let the pooch out middle of the day. Probably can't be helped.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 16:24:58 GMT -5
Dog owner is now saying that she's afraid spending some days with me uncrated would set pup back in his crate training. I could offer to keep puppy in a crate all day in my apartment so at least he wouldn't be alone, but to be honest, here's the thing -- I'd be lying. I'd totally let him out, especially if he was crying. I'd have to let him out. I just would.
|
|
|
Post by Christine on Jul 27, 2018 18:45:42 GMT -5
Gaaah! Leaving the puppy in a crate while the owner is gone for 8+ hours is not crate training. Crate training doesn't mean "leave the puppy in there until she gets used to being in there for 8 hours and don't take her out because then she'll get spoiled" or whatever the fuck the owner is thinking here. I don't know what the owner is doing when the owner is home, but crate training is a meticulous process, and the first order of business is to encourage the pup to LIKE the crate. Leaving pup alone in the crate all day (with one short break) is not accomplishing that -- it's doing the opposite. From what I've read, successful crate training starts with the owner being present/close by, food/treats in the crate, short duration periods in the crate, and so on. A couple of links in case the owner is interested, and if you, Cass, would be interested in helping her with crate training: www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/crate_training.htmlwww.preventivevet.com/dogs/everything-you-need-to-know-about-crate-training-your-puppy-or-adult-dog
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 18:57:26 GMT -5
I AM interested in helping, for sure. And obviously, it bugs the hell out of me that pup is in there, and all alone, so long every day. The trouble, of course, is that I can only take puppers sometimes, not every day. My thought was to give puppers at least SOME time out of that crate with some company. She's worried about the inconsistency. I'll look at the links and send them to her. Maybe I can convince her that if I follow the instructions on days I have pup with me, I can be helpful in crate training. (And yes, my understanding about crate training was exactly what you're saying -- that the idea was to get them to like the crate and feel comfortable in there. And yes, she said she's NOT keeping pup in the crate when she's home, so poor pup's only association with it, at this point, is misery and loneliness. She's going on the "sooner or later he'll get used to it and stop crying" theory. Thank you. Thank you all, actually. I'm grateful for the input and for you listening to my daily hand-wringing on this topic.
|
|