|
Post by nighttimer on Oct 17, 2018 15:04:03 GMT -5
So who fits your bill, NT? Are there a few names you think could do it? I have no idea who is viable for you all. I'm glad Michele Obama isn't running, because I think the GOP would be in trouble. But who out there can do it for the Dems? Someone who can do two things. Unify a very un-unified party and beat an incumbent president. Neither is easy, but both are quite doable. Trump will never stop poking the bear and giving Democrats more than ample reasons to continually despise him and wrack their collective brains in search of a champion to punch out the bully in the Oval Office. It's too soon for me to get behind any candidate. I want someone who represents something more than "I hate Trump" and actually wants to lead instead of simply attack, attack, attack. I've always preferred to vote for someone instead of against someone and I trust I'm not alone in that sentiment. I suspect that NT, like me, would drag himself over broken glass to vote for a turnip in 2020 if it were the Democratic candidate and up against Trump. NT, what I'm saying is not that we need to cater to White men. Nor am I saying we need to throw people of color and liberal principles under the bus. Definitely, absolutely, I think that's a bad idea. We NEED enthusiasm in the base. And I think the GOP is giving us plenty of ammunition to sell the Democrat's message. All I'm saying is we need to pick a candidate who is charismatic enough to sell that message to people who aren't necessarily automatically fully in bed with Democrats (but can be convinced) or who are not 100% committed to voting, but can be inspired to do so. We need another Obama or Bill Clinton. I keep using Beto as an example -- that off-the-cuff speech he made defending the right of the football players to kneel as being as American as it gets was soaring, uncompromising, and the kind of thing that actually convinces people. Nothing wishy-washy about it. But I played it for my Republican mom, who has been giving the side-eye at the football players, and she was impressed. More to the point, it actually MOVED her on the issue--she gets it now. That's just amazing to me. I someone like Beto can get her vote in 2020 as Obama did in 2008. (I'm sure she won't be voting Trump. She is one of the lifelong Republicans who is VERY unhappy with her party at the moment. Trump was not what she signed up for. Probably doesn't help that Chris Collins is her representative. But she's one of the many Americans who is happy to vote third party, or just stay home if she hates everyone.) Elizabeth Warren is many fine things, but she doesn't have that particular quality, IMO. And as this incident shows, she takes Trump's bait, and that's just not good. I think many voters who aren't dead set on the Democrats--even those who hate Trump and would never vote for him--will stay home or tune her out. And we want them coming out. It won't necessarily be Beto, obviously. But someone who has that thing that makes him/her a contender even in deep red states -- and a winner in purple states. (Does anyone doubt for a nanosecond that he'd KILL Cruz if Texas weren't so extremely red?) I agree with c.e. that Michelle could pull in voters, but I also think she'll never run. The only Black woman who is seriously considering 2020 is Kamala Harris. I don't know what she believes her path to the presidency is, but I'm interested in learning more. Same goes for Amy Kloubuchar, Kirsten Gillebrand, and yes, Elizabeth Warren. I like Joe Biden much more than Bernie Sanders, but I can't get excited about either one. When I look for a tough Democrat to take on Trump, I'm seeing more women than men who look up to the job.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 17:14:59 GMT -5
I would love to see a woman go for it. And yes, I think all of the women you name are going to be in contention, and I'm keeping my eye on them. I'm good with Joe, but really really really really hope it isn't Bernie -- he's my least favorite contender I've been hearing bandied about. (But yes, if he's the candidate, he has my vote.)
I've long been familiar with all of them, except Amy Klobuchar -- I didn't know much about her until the Kavanaugh hearings. I liked what I saw of her.
|
|
|
Post by celawson on Oct 17, 2018 17:48:49 GMT -5
I like Amy better than Kamala. Kamala scares me. 😬 She’s mean. Smart....but mean.
|
|
|
Post by nighttimer on Oct 17, 2018 19:21:10 GMT -5
I like Amy better than Kamala. Kamala scares me. 😬 She’s mean. Smart....but mean. Mean?
A Trump supporter is talking about meanness? After Megan Kelly? After Rosie O' Donnell? After Mika Brezinski? After Maxine Waters? After Stormy Daniels? After Christine Blasey Ford? ? You gotta be kidding, right? You're not one of those Republican women who puts party over everything even over men who have a long history and documented history of demeaning, humiliating, exploiting and holding other women up to contempt, are you celawson?
Are you?
Kamala Harris isn't "mean." She's tough. Don't get it twisted and don't buy into the cliche of the Angry Black Woman. Donald Trump is mean. You are giving the Angriest of Angry White Men a pass and ragging on an accomplished Black woman for being "mean?"
That stretches my credulity and your credibility to the breaking point.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 22:10:55 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by celawson on Oct 18, 2018 9:47:32 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Amadan on Oct 18, 2018 9:57:37 GMT -5
Okay, but what do you really mean by "She's mean"? I mean, I'd expect a prosecutor to be mean in court. Do you mean she lacks compassion? That she'd push for cruel policies? That she's a mean person who would treat her constituents badly? I'm not a fan of Kamala Harris, btw. But your flippant "Oh no, she's mean!" looks odd to me. I mean, you know I'm not a fan of seeing sexism everywhere, but it does kinda look like, while Republican women are always accused of being airheads, dolls without substance, etc. (take Sarah Palin - who certainly says some stupid shit but I don't think she was ever as stupid as she was made out to be thanks to SNL, et al), any Democratic woman who takes a "tough" demeanor turns into a mean ol' bitch because, you know, she wears pantsuits. Or something.
|
|
|
Post by celawson on Oct 18, 2018 10:09:41 GMT -5
It actually was mostly a joke. I was referring to how assertively she questions nominees during nomination hearings, and how she went to the mat against Kavanaugh with the whole "Did you ever speak to anyone at such and such law firm (with, like, 300 lawyers) about Mueller?" schtick. That was weird. She seems like the boss I'd hate to have. But I value being nice, which is a strange quirk of mine. I wish I could be more assertive at times, actually. I could never be a lawyer.
But no, I'm not really being 100 percent serious.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2018 10:16:00 GMT -5
As a woman attorney, I can say it is absolutely the case that what is viewed as "tough" or "firm" in a man is all too commonly seen as mean or abrasive in women, including by other women.
There is a (probably often unconscious) bias that women are supposed to be gentle. Deviating from a gentle tone is done at your peril. The same tone--or a much harsher one--from a man is perfectly acceptable.
ETA
E.g. -- let's take aside Trump, who is simply an asshole.
Is Mitch McConnell "mean"? Lindsay Graham?
Because I've heard some mighty harsh stuff out of them (and most other male Senators and Congress critters).
|
|
|
Post by nighttimer on Oct 18, 2018 11:21:39 GMT -5
It actually was mostly a joke. I was referring to how assertively she questions nominees during nomination hearings, and how she went to the mat against Kavanaugh with the whole "Did you ever speak to anyone at such and such law firm (with, like, 300 lawyers) about Mueller?" schtick. That was weird. She seems like the boss I'd hate to have. But I value being nice, which is a strange quirk of mine. I wish I could be more assertive at times, actually. I could never be a lawyer. But no, I'm not really being 100 percent serious. You could never be a lawyer, but you are a doctor and you are a woman and you are part of a profession where men have been seen as the ones with all the authority, credibility and gravitas. I can't believe you've never had your qualifications questioned by one of your male peers or a patient who didn't want a woman as their physician. I can't believe you've never had your assertiveness and confidence questioned as being harsh and arrogant. Kamala Harris was a prosecutor and state attorney general. If she came hard at Judge Kavanaugh, it's because I don't know of many prosecutors who come off as warm and cuddly when they're on the clock doing the job. When anyone comes before the Senate Judiciary Committee and faces questions about their beliefs, judicial philosophy and how they approach the law, I want them to handle the tough questions because the softballs are kid stuff. I don't think a strong woman is mean. I think mean women are mean. When women don't show deference to men, they're characterized as being rude, angry, and yes--being a bitch. Harris would not be able to achieve as much as she has or as much as she aspires to by simply being a tough bitch. A well-behaved woman rarely makes history as the saying goes. It's the woman who doesn't worry over how she's characterized who makes history. I strongly suspect Harris is one of those women. Go big or go home.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2018 12:00:21 GMT -5
And then, of course, a woman who isn't sufficiently "mean" risks being perceived as weak, insufficiently assertive and authoritative, etc.
Women in positions of authority have an extraordinarily fine line to walk, much more so than men.
|
|
|
Post by robeiae on Oct 19, 2018 8:17:18 GMT -5
Idiot:
Amazing how so many people don't know how to shut up when they're winning...
|
|
|
Post by robeiae on Oct 19, 2018 9:25:34 GMT -5
A piece that perfectly echoes my own thinking on DNA testing: www.nationalreview.com/2018/10/elizabeth-warren-dna-test-identity/From it: When I see that ad, I feel exactly the same way. It's sending a horrible message. There's nothing wrong with investigating one's history, one's ancestors, one's DNA. And there's nothing wrong with celebrating such things, to an extent. But transforming who you are today so it lines up with who your ancestors were is profoundly stupid, in my view.
|
|
|
Post by Don on Oct 20, 2018 5:30:08 GMT -5
Here's a piece describing Elizabeth Warren's efforts to help her beleaguered ethnic family. The article goes on to detail her support of Operation Choke Point and her opposition to the Tribal Labor Sovereignty Act, both of which worked to undermine tribal sovereignty over their land. Oh, wait. That's not really help, is it? No wonder she's not getting any tribal support.
|
|
|
Post by robeiae on Dec 10, 2018 10:31:54 GMT -5
Will she or won't she? A lot of signs seems to be pointing towards "yes": With apologies to PETA, I really don't think this dog can hunt. But I wonder if anyone can--or will--tell her that. Given how awful her advisers seem to be--what, with the DNA test shit show--I'm guessing they're all telling her that she's got it in the bag.
|
|