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Post by celawson on Nov 30, 2018 21:56:39 GMT -5
Well, I don’t believe they would lie, NT, in something like this that can be found out pretty easily.
I just think it’s interesting that in a story where the only named sources like Bolton emphatically deny telling Haspel not to come, as does the WH, yet the thrust of the story because of all the emphasis on some guy’s speculation and a couple unnamed sources, is that the WH is doing some sort of major supression of information in order to pull the wool over Congress’ eyes. That would be kinda stupid for anyone taking Congress’ temperature on this issue. That sort of stuff won’t fly, as we are seeing from both Dems and GOP Congress persons.
And now when the actual CIA comes out and says she was not asked to stay away, people still think the opposite.
I appreciate your explanation about the journalism stuff but I still believe a direct source like Bolton or the CIA itself in this instance. But yeah, The Guardian has more interest in reporting their version than just the facts, ma’am.
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Post by nighttimer on Nov 30, 2018 23:58:32 GMT -5
Well, I don’t believe they would lie, NT, in something like this that can be found out pretty easily. I just think it’s interesting that in a story where the only named sources like Bolton emphatically deny telling Haspel not to come, as does the WH, yet the thrust of the story because of all the emphasis on some guy’s speculation and a couple unnamed sources, is that the WH is doing some sort of major supression of information in order to pull the wool over Congress’ eyes. That would be kinda stupid for anyone taking Congress’ temperature on this issue. That sort of stuff won’t fly, as we are seeing from both Dems and GOP Congress persons. And now when the actual CIA comes out and says she was not asked to stay away, people still think the opposite. I appreciate your explanation about the journalism stuff but I still believe a direct source like Bolton or the CIA itself in this instance. But yeah, The Guardian has more interest in reporting their version than just the facts, ma’am. John Bolton is a warmongering piece of shit and in the dead of winter if he told me it was a fucking snowstorm I'd open all the windows and go sit on my porch. He can't be bothered to listen to the Khashhoggi tape because its not in English. What the absolute hell sense does that make for the so-called National Security Advisor? You've always clung to the absurd faith belief that despite his absolute ignorance and amateurism in global events and the nuances of Washington politics Trump would hire competent people to advise him.
How exactly does that work for you when Bolton can't be bothered to listen to the Khashoggi Murder/Death/Kill tape because it isn't in fucking ENGLISH?
This...this kind of absurd bullshit makes sense to you, celawson? A president's National Security Advisor declines to listen to a tape because he's such a delicate snowflake he can't hang with listening to a man being beaten, bled out, and sawed into bloody chunks? John Bolton and his nasty-ass mustache are both pussies.
I do not and I will not believe for a second you would be as sanguine if all things remained the same and President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton or John Kerry or any of his National Security Advisors blew off listening to a tape because it wasn't in goddamned ENGLISH.
I have no words. If you're so naive or such a partisan you can't fathom a CIA spokesman wouldn't lie his ass off to cover for the asses of his bosses, I don't know what to say about that. I really don't.
If you really believe The Guardian has more interest in making the Trump Misadminstration look bad than Bolton and Gina Haspel's CIA have in making them look good, I give the fuck up. You're either too much of a true believer and convert to the Cult of Trumpism to talk rationally with or such a blind partisan you've innoculated yourself to any version of the facts that deviate from serial liars like Trump and Bolton to handle any version of the facts beyond theirs.
I give up on you. You win. You're a lost cause, celawson. I finally see why Amadan and the absent Cassandra have given up on trying to reason with you. I mean this with all sincerity; I am very saddened by that.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 1, 2018 9:49:22 GMT -5
So you think the CIA spokesperson is also lying in a public statement? Because the link and quote is from the CIA spokesperson, Timothy Barrett.
Do you think if the CIA was told "This is the official narrative" that they would publicly contradict the President?
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Post by markesq on Dec 2, 2018 16:21:50 GMT -5
Sorry, been away at a soccer tournament with my son. But Amadan and NT appear to have said everything I would in response.
And, of course, none of these (Haspel's presence) addresses the disgraceful acceptance by Trump of this horrific crime, and his rejection of information from his own intelligence agency that MBS knew and probably ordered the killing.
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Post by celawson on Dec 6, 2018 11:13:26 GMT -5
Trump has some really smart people helping him out here, especially Pompeo. He was a very recent CIA DIRECTOR, remember? 2017-2018. I think that's a really important point. They must have really good reasons why they are treading so carefully here, and it's not because Trump wants to be buddy buddy with MBS for his own business reasons. We shouldn't be purposely naive about this just because Trump.
As I said from the very beginning, it's a complicated situation and didn't happen on our soil. Turkey has a lot of stuff happening besides wanting to get to the truth for the sole purpose of the truth. And the balance of power in the ME is not something to sneeze at. I think it's really important to look at the big picture here, sad as it was for Mr. Khashoggi. Perhaps the admin wants Congress to be the bad guys, therefore the U.S. can still take a moral stand but maintain some good ties and cooperation with Saudi Arabia.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 6, 2018 11:22:32 GMT -5
Trump has some really smart people helping him out here, especially Pompeo. He was a very recent CIA DIRECTOR, remember? 2017-2018. I think that's a really important point. They must have really good reasons why they are treading so carefully here, and it's not because Trump wants to be buddy buddy with MBS for his own business reasons. We shouldn't be purposely naive about this just because Trump. As I said from the very beginning, it's a complicated situation and didn't happen on our soil. Turkey has a lot of stuff happening besides wanting to get to the truth for the sole purpose of the truth. And the balance of power in the ME is not something to sneeze at. I think it's really important to look at the big picture here, sad as it was for Mr. Khashoggi. Perhaps the admin wants Congress to be the bad guys, therefore the U.S. can still take a moral stand but maintain some good ties and cooperation with Saudi Arabia. Wait, I thought you already conceded that Trump rolled over on this, and now you're back to "It's complicated and I'm sure they're doing nothing because reasons"? That's exactly what you're doing.
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Post by celawson on Dec 6, 2018 13:41:47 GMT -5
Yes, I’ve either evolved, devolved, or revolved on this issue. Time will tell.
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Post by markesq on Dec 6, 2018 14:18:44 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm totally confused. You concede that pretty much everyone on the planet except Trump and his closest couple of minions acknowledge MBS was behind this murder, right? I mean, if the CIA and now even top Republican leaders say so, surely you're on board with that wee fact, right?
Which leaves us with Trump doing nothing because... it's complicated.
Not good enough in my book (or millions of other people's books, I suspect). Your leader is a spineless weasel of a human being whose only interest is in protecting himself and his business empire.
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Post by nighttimer on Dec 11, 2018 11:45:03 GMT -5
TIME magazine names their 2018 Person(s) of the Year.Jamal Khashoggi died doing his job. Journalism is a tough gig. You don't do it for the money. You do it because you want to tell the truth so informed people can make informed decisions. Telling the truth is a dangerous profession. It shouldn't be, but in a world where thugs like Vladimir Putin, mobsters like Mohammed bin Salman and autocrats like Donald Trump, it is. But the work goes on. As-Salaam-Alaikum, Jamal Khashoggi.
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