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Post by CG Admin on Nov 15, 2018 10:21:04 GMT -5
So, per Cass' request, I de-modded her. And at the same time, I fully de-modded myself as "robeiae," since it seemed pointless to be a lone mod with limited mod powers. CG Admin will be the only account that does any modding, from this point forward.
That said, anyone can of course message my "robeiae" account for board-related issues/questions.
This is all probably for the best, because we're not really growing in membership. I considered just shutting the board down last night, but opted to let it go on, at least for now.
But re "modding," I think we've had a minimal amount of it, really so I'm going to offer up an option to the membership at large:
I'm willing to bite my tongue and let the board run mod-free from now on, as a sort of experiment. Everyone knows how they should behave and, by and large, lines are rarely crossed. So if people want to try this let me know. I'll attach a poll to this thread.
One caveat: explicit name calling, ala "you're a dumb fuck," or explicit racism/xenophobia/sexism directed at other members will end the experiment.
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Post by celawson on Nov 15, 2018 11:43:06 GMT -5
Why did you consider shutting the board down? Is it too time-consuming to manage? Not enough people participating?
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Post by celawson on Nov 15, 2018 13:39:46 GMT -5
Ok, I’m just going to say this. Especially since this board might not survive much longer anyway, unfortunately.
I do, for the most part, really enjoy coming here and reading and posting. That is despite the fact that 90 percent of the active threads are bashing Trump and the GOP. Still, frequently the topics are so interesting and some posts so insightful, that I think I get much more out of this place than Twitter or major news outlets, as a fun stop before beginning my day. And a big part of that is because I feel like I know most of you, and I like that aspect. We might not have a lot of posters, but we’ve had a strong core group for a really long time now. Did anyone notice we had our TWO YEAR anniversary 6 days ago? That's long enough to demonstrate that we like this place. And I do like this place.
Life gets busy then slows down, then gets busy again. I post frequently then stop for a while, because the standard here is pretty high and I usually like to do a decent job expressing my POV, and yes, time constraints. We all have them. But I always stop by to read threads, even if I don’t post.
And maybe I’m dense, but I honestly don’t know why stuff like yesterday happens. And yes, it killed the thread and killed the discussion and seems to have brought TCG to a full stop. For what?
Seriously, you all -- for what?
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Post by markesq on Nov 15, 2018 14:28:30 GMT -5
I'm with you celawson (dammit, change your name! I never know what to call you. If I type just "ce" it's too short, but celawson sounds odd and formal. Anyway....). This is the one place I come to for perspectives I can trust. Where I know people will be honest when I ask a question, or point it out when I say something dumb.
I, too, get busy and don't always find the time to make long, thoughtful posts. But I want to understand the world around me, and talk about it, and this is the ONLY place I come. Maybe we should express our gratitude more to Rob for bringing us together here, clearly he/you doesn't/don't realize what an important role it plays. I disagree almost ALL the time with celawson, but every time I see she's posted I am interested, even excited, to see her perspective.
Likewise Cass. I fucking love her intelligence and passion. Her outrage. The way the sunlight.... wait, wrong board. And nighttimer's posts are glorious works of art that brim with humor and quotations and many, many more things. I love to read everything you all write, even when I don't have the time or knowledge to chip in.
So, anyway. I'm sticking around for as long as you guys will have me, and will join me. I hope it's a while.
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Post by celawson on Nov 15, 2018 15:02:57 GMT -5
Awesome, mark.
Honestly, you all, I think the same of the regular posters here as mark does - seriously intelligent and insightful people here. And believe it or not, you all have brought me to the precipice of the dark side on not rare occasions. It doesn’t seem that way to you, because I do tend to speak up more in threads that are lopsided, but that’s the way it is and I hope you take my word for it. But then I go and read Townhall and take a few deep breaths and restore my sanity.
(Joking - I do not read Townhall. As I’ve said to Amadan in the past. )
So yeah, i am grateful to Rob (thanks for the reminder, mark) and I would love this forum to continue.
And ce is fine! I still haven’t worked up the guts to connect my real name to my forum name. My name here is the name of the main character in the first novel length fiction I wrote.
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Post by robeiae on Nov 15, 2018 15:51:23 GMT -5
The issue for me isn't time, at all. Similarly, there's not even a cost component. The board costs me nothing (and I make nothing, just in case anyone is wondering). The issue is the board's usefulness, frankly, not only as concerns me but also what I glean from the level of participation.
I appreciate what you guys are saying about the board, though; that's always been the intent, even if it goes off the rails from time to time.
Anyway, it's still here. And there's a 99.9% chance that it will survive the holidays.
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Post by nighttimer on Nov 15, 2018 15:58:11 GMT -5
I voted "No." The only thing I dislike more than moderator overreach is no moderation at all.
It's not simply about calling someone out as a dumb fuck. Any one of us can be a dumb fuck and some of us more often than others. But we're ALL dumb fucks on certain topics and by now I would like to think I've figured out what I know nothing about.
That said, without a Moderator there will be topic drift and ugly derails. There are all sorts of way to call someone a dumb fuck without using that exact term. I speak fluent Passive Aggressive and in my moments of grandiosity, I may bypass passivity and go straight to the aggression.
I don't think leaving members of a debate board to their own devices is always a good thing. Yes, we're all adults here, but the way adults can turn on each other with no supervision present dwarfs the kind of mischief a classroom of kids on a sugar binge can get into.
We'll just have to see what happens. As long as the board endures.
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Post by gaild on Nov 16, 2018 3:39:46 GMT -5
Thank you for NOT shutting down TCG! I would be bitterly disappointed if you had. Really. I've only just found you. What can we do to help boost membership? Tell me. If it doesn't involve naked pole dancing, I'll do it.  |
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Post by markesq on Nov 16, 2018 10:35:05 GMT -5
If it doesn't involve naked pole dancing, I'll do it. I have that angle covered. |
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Post by celawson on Nov 16, 2018 11:31:31 GMT -5
Now where did I put that brain bleach?
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Post by markesq on Nov 16, 2018 12:18:42 GMT -5
Now where did I put that brain bleach? It's OK, I wear pasties.  |
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Post by gaild on Nov 16, 2018 12:30:03 GMT -5
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Post by Amadan on Nov 19, 2018 9:16:38 GMT -5
I like this board, mostly because I know you all from elsewhere. I am on a number of other boards that are basically tiny water coolers set up for people who knew each other for a long time on some other site, which then got shut down, and they wanted to stay in touch. Such boards will inevitably become tiny little cliques that nowadays would probably work better as Discord channels or the like, and it's very hard to bring new people to a place that was basically set up for a clique to shoot the breeze with each other. I never really thought TCG had much hope of growing beyond a scattered band of AW refugees. Will we still be around in 10 years? Eh, who knows? One of the boards I mentioned is still around after over 15 years. I check in there every now and then.
I do not think shutting down moderation (almost) entirely is a good idea. I've seen that before. Everything will go to shit. Online moderation is no-win: no one ever thinks they were modded fairly, and no one with a grievance ever thinks you're modding enough.
I'm sorry Cass got so upset by that thread that she stepped down as a mod. Fwiw, the "you don't have the legal expertise to comment on this" also rubbed me the wrong way, but I think maybe rob telling her privately to dial it back (or else disagreeing with her as rob instead of as CG Admin) might have looked less like a public spanking.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 14:16:32 GMT -5
My understanding was that this would be a very lightly modded board. Members would not be modded because they said things that rubbed the moderators or members the wrong way, but because they broke a rule. Occasionally, a mod might step in to move a thread along where a thread had derailed into a pure spitting match, but members wouldn't be forbidden from expressing an unpopular view unless it were downright trollish. As I recall, CG Admin noted that he would only step in when something really egregious had occurred.
Generally, I think that's been the way the modding has been overall. But I don't think it was the case with my post.
My post may have rubbed some of you "the wrong way", but I disagree entirely with Rob's view that it was a "personal attack." What I did was express a hate fact, and one I do not retract in the slightest: celawson, while perfectly free to express her views on Acosta's behavior and the rules she believes should pertain to White House briefings, lacks the expertise to assess the likelihood of success of CNN's court case. Such an evaluation requires reading and understanding both the relevant case law and the standards a court would apply. Googling a TMZ clip of Alan Dershowitz issuing a snap comment (apparently before learning that the White House was using a doctored clip of the incident, since he seemed to feel the alleged physical altercation would be a factor) doesn't give her that expertise. If celawson had simply opined "well, I think Acosta is a jerk and the White House should be free to kick him out", that would be a point on which she and I might disagree, but it requires no particular expertise. However, assessing the legal merits of CNN's lawsuit and likelihood of its success in court does require expertise. That's why people pay lawyers.
I highly recommend that if any of you face a personal law suit, you don't take a "I can assess my court case just as well as any stinkin' lawyer and legal precedents be damned!" approach.
To those who say "but you tried to silence ce's opinion!", pfft. I spoke as a member, not a mod. I said she didn't have expertise; I didn't forbid her from expressing her view.
Anyway. Disagree with my position if you like, but I submit that it was not a personal attack or a violation of forum rules. IMO, it did not require or merit CG Admin descending to spank me and prevent me from making it.
I'll note that Rob disagrees with my position, and it's his board. So be it. But that's my take.
On a personal note, increasingly I've been finding engaging in political discussions more depressing and exhausting than fun, probably due to my feeling that this administration is, as Kellyanne Conway's husband put it, a shit show in a dumpster fire. I feel like I'm fiddling futilely while the nation burns. I need a prolonged break and I'm going to take it. Not being a mod will put less pressure on me to put in an appearance.
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Post by Amadan on Nov 19, 2018 15:50:01 GMT -5
I did think rob officially stepping in to correct you as a mod was excessive.
That said, there's a difference between "This is my area of expertise, so I probably know more about this than you, and here's why you're wrong" and "You aren't a professional and I am so your opinion is worthless." I don't think you were trying to "silence" celaw, but you certainly were making an Appeal to Authority (your own). We all have opinions about the law, which is not, in theory, meant to be opaque to an educated layperson, and I'm sure I don't need to tell a lawyer that the law is subjective and it is not Holy Writ that can only be correctly interpreted by those who've been inducted into the priesthood. In other words, yes, I will certainly cede to your legal expertise if you say I'm factually wrong on a point of law, but when we are prognisticating on the likely success of a lawsuit, I certainly put more value in your opinion than mine or celaw's, but that doesn't mean your opinion is objectively correct and I think falling back on "Respect muh authoriteee!" was an overreach, in a moment of frustration, on your part.
I hope you will not depart for good. I know politics is a shitshow right now, but honestly, this all seems like a rehash of the bitterest years of the Bush administration. People were polarized, losing their shit, and swearing it was the Death of the Republic from both sides of the aisle then too.
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