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Post by celawson on Dec 13, 2018 11:59:12 GMT -5
France's other big problem besides the nice men in yellow vests (*sarcasm alert*) is terrorism. There's a thread on Twitter by a NYT reporter who covers ISIS, about this, in light of the recent shooting in Strasbourg at the Christmas Market which killed 3 and left one person brain dead. The thread is very interesting, but the Tweet that blew me away is number 4 in the thread: 20k in France are in a database of radicalized? Like I said in a previous post, Europe is changing and in a real struggle right now. Here's a link to an informative BBC article on the Strasbourg attack: www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46535862 |
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Post by nighttimer on Dec 13, 2018 19:42:21 GMT -5
That's too bad for France. How many school shootings have they had? Here in the good old U.S.A. 2018 was the worst year ever for that sort of terrorism.
Here's an informative BBC article on how bloody America's school year has been. Before I clutch the pearls over violent acts of domestic terrorism across the pond, I'm a little more worried about how blase and indifferent we have grown to be about domestic terrorists right here in The Land of the Gun. America has no business worrying about a random act of terror in France when it conveniently forgets about the random acts of terror which occur right here with sickening frequency and horrendous effect. |
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Post by markesq on Dec 13, 2018 19:58:04 GMT -5
I was going to say pretty much what NT said. School shootings, mass shootings, random individual shootings... a much bigger problem than terrorism in France.
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Post by celawson on Dec 13, 2018 20:16:23 GMT -5
And don't forget Trump.
I get it. We can't talk about anything besides how horrible the U.S. is, and how it's Trump's fault. Fine. Have at it.
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Post by markesq on Dec 13, 2018 20:42:27 GMT -5
Neither of us mentioned Trump. Paranoia setting in?
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Post by Don on Dec 14, 2018 5:29:44 GMT -5
I think she was referring to the other popular sport.
"We can't talk about anything besides how horrible the U.S. is,"
I don't know how many times I've heard "we can talk about more than one bad thing at a time," then along comes an anti-gun school-shooting tirade in a thread about neither the US nor guns.
I understand exactly how ce saw this. It's the same as any other deliberate thread hijacking. Why start a thread about topic D, or E, or F, if it will always be deflected to a thread about A) Evil Trump, B) racism, or C) how we should be more like europe. Since this thread violated item C) it had to be hijacked.
I haven't bothered creating new threads lately for that reason. I suspect ce feels the same way.
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Post by robeiae on Dec 14, 2018 8:01:01 GMT -5
Ahhh...yep. School shootings in the U.S. are a huge problem I think, by any reasonable standard. But that reality doesn't supersede every other issue in every other country. And that works both ways. If--god forbid--there's another school shooting in the US, someone starts a thread on it, and someone else pipes in with "well, it's awful, to be sure, but it still doesn't make things as bad here as they are in Venezuela," I'm guessing most people would deride such a response. Most of us are in the US, to be sure(but not all of us). And that's why there's a separate room for US Politics, and another one for International Politics (which is where this thread is). You know, I started a thread on the Strasbourg attack in General Current Events, and intially I saw this thread as repetitive. But kudos to ce, because it's really not. It's definitely about political angles, related to terrorism. Here's an old piece on France's FSPRT database: www.brusselstimes.com/eu-affairs/8945/one-third-of-persons-listed-as-radicalized-in-france-have-psychological-disordersFrom it: That is--imo--a weird angle to take, and creates a lot of questions about this database, how it's being compiled, and how it is--or isn't--being used. |
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Post by nighttimer on Dec 14, 2018 8:01:23 GMT -5
And don't forget Trump. I get it. We can't talk about anything besides how horrible the U.S. is, and how it's Trump's fault. Fine. Have at it. No, you don't get it. You're not even close to getting it. Your paranoia about terrorism and your knee-jerk defensiveness of President Pussygrabber even when his name isn't mentioned is tedious and tiresome. So is the straw man angle of attack. I said nothing about how horrible the U.S. is (though a lot of things about the U.S. are horrible and gun violence is high on that list). I was comparing and contrasting and it's just 20 types of Too Bad if you don't like the reality that random acts of murder and mayhem occur with greater frequency and regularity here than there. Your all-consuming passion is He Who Grabs Ladies By Their Lady Parts shalt not be mocked. Even when he wasn't. Well, he is now. Happy?  I think she was referring to the other popular sport. "We can't talk about anything besides how horrible the U.S. is," I don't know how many times I've heard "we can talk about more than one bad thing at a time," then along comes an anti-gun school-shooting tirade in a thread about neither the US nor guns. I understand exactly how ce saw this. It's the same as any other deliberate thread hijacking. Why start a thread about topic D, or E, or F, if it will always be deflected to a thread about A) Evil Trump, B) racism, or C) how we should be more like europe. Since this thread violated item C) it had to be hijacked. I haven't bothered creating new threads lately for that reason. I suspect ce feels the same way. And isn't that a crying shame?  NOBODY cares if you don't create a new thread, Don. NOBODY said shit about Trump until celawson dragged his hopefully-soon-to-be-indicted-ass into this thread and jacked her own thread. NOBODY said shit about racism. NOBODY said shit about the U.S. being more like Europe. Let me explain something to you which apparently sailed right over your head or you never knew in the first place. Starting a thread does not mean you can dictate how others react and respond to a thread. It is not "deliberate thread hijacking" to suggest "If=This=Then=That." To compare and contrast is part of how discussion and debate goes. While I deplore acts of terror over there, I'm not going to conveniently forget about the acts of terror which occur right here in our streets, schools, churches and home. As a famed man of letters who wearied of this country's policy of forced segregation and fled to Paris, upon his return to these shores to join the fight for civil rights wrote, “ I love America more than any other country in the world and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.” |
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Post by celawson on Dec 14, 2018 12:00:18 GMT -5
Not paranoid at all. It was only a matter of time before Trump would be brought in, so I decided to save everyone precious minutes. Life is short, don't ya know? So of course I agree with Don's excellent post. Thank you, Don. It's really annoying that in the International Forum, a thread about France and terrorism gets shot down because of shootings in the U.S. nighttimer mentioned something very appropriate to this thread in his post above. It could have been accidentally, because it doesn't seem like he or mark want to engage about the problem in France, but it's very pertinent: See, one of the MAIN points about my thread was that THIS IS NOT RANDOM in France. There is a huge database of radicalized people in France, and there are terror cells coordinating both the radicalization part and a lot of the terror. That is very different from school shootings and disturbed gunmen in the U.S. And given that the population of France is somewhere like 1/15 that of the U.S., 20K radicalized is a real problem. Here's an article from the CBC that gives numbers: (mostly for Robo and Don and others who might be interested.  Title: The staggering scale of France's battle against terror, by the numbers
See? someone besides me is staggered by this www.cbc.ca/news/thenational/national-today-newsletter-terrorism-implant-registry-rice-1.4939071Did you see that? France would have to employ FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND cops to "fully blunt" the threats. And this guy has had 27 convictions for one thing or another over the years. I don't think it's a waste of time to discuss how a country approaches this issue, even though it's not the good ol' US of A. I happen to be thinking about Europe and terrorism because my daughter is flying to Siena to study abroad in the spring, and she plans to take the train to other places during weekends. I do not want her to go to Paris. Or London. But really, I don't have to justify why I would like to discuss this issue, because, after all, this is a discussion forum, as Rob pointed out. Also, I care A LOT if Don doesn't start new threads, because I find Don to be smart as hell and I love his perspective on stuff. Don not starting threads is a loss to this small forum. And to address Rob's fascinating response here -- yes, this is really interesting. Even if these guys have "psychological disorders", there remains in France a coordinated effort to radicalize people to a certain religious agenda there (which is not the issue in the U.S. for its mass shootings in total, and I will say again, hence a different thread and discussion), and of course psychologically disturbed folks would be more likely, IMO, to follow such a disturbing agenda. To have 2000 people who are radicalized (and that's just who's on the list) in the immediate vicinity of the Christmas Market that has long been a target, is, again, very different from a random shooting at a country music concert in Vegas. And it needs to be approached differently by government. Also, if Trump gets indicted or impeached for something that plenty of lawyers and even former FEC big shots are cogently arguing is prob not even breaking of campaign finance laws, I will eat my MAGA hat. (sorry, I should have put that last sentence in the other thread) |
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Post by nighttimer on Dec 14, 2018 16:05:40 GMT -5
Not paranoid at all. It was only a matter of time before Trump would be brought in, so I decided to save everyone precious minutes. Life is short, don't ya know? Yes. Life IS short. And you shorten it even more when you drag your Defend Trump! mania around like a ball and chain. So of course I agree with Don's excellent post. Thank you, Don. It's really annoying that in the International Forum, a thread about France and terrorism gets shot down because of shootings in the U.S. Be annoyed. It's relevant even if you and your new BFF don't think it is. "Got shot down?" Hey, unintended comedy! nighttimer mentioned something very appropriate to this thread in his post above. It could have been accidentally, because it doesn't seem like he or mark want to engage about the problem in France, but it's very pertinent: Yawn. Here we go again. You don't really care about the problem in France. You just wanna beat your little tin drum about "terrorists!" At least foreign terrorists. See, one of the MAIN points about my thread was that THIS IS NOT RANDOM in France. There is a huge database of radicalized people in France, and there are terror cells coordinating both the radicalization part and a lot of the terror. That is very different from school shootings and disturbed gunmen in the U.S. And given that the population of France is somewhere like 1/15 that of the U.S., 20K radicalized is a real problem. Here's an article from the CBC that gives numbers: (mostly for Robo and Don and others who might be interested. Feel free to put me on "ignore" then. Title: The staggering scale of France's battle against terror, by the numbers
See? someone besides me is staggered by this www.cbc.ca/news/thenational/national-today-newsletter-terrorism-implant-registry-rice-1.4939071Did you see that? France would have to employ FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND cops to "fully blunt" the threats. And this guy has had 27 convictions for one thing or another over the years. I don't think it's a waste of time to discuss how a country approaches this issue, even though it's not the good ol' US of A. Yeah. I saw that. Still not freaking out because right here in the good ol' US of A, we've got a little domestic terrorism problem of our own:Even though you don't care about homegrown terrorists in the good ol' US of A, celawson, because you're momentarily and vaguely interested in a French terror attack, thank goodness the FBI and other law enforcement agencies don't share your blase indifference. Fact is, you're still more likely to be killed by an angry White guy with a truck full of explosives and mowing down concertgoers from a hotel room in Las Vegas than you are of being taken out by a radicalized Islamic extremist.
Sorry to spoil your fearmongering about France with facts about how dangerous it is back in the good ol' US of A. I just roll that way.  I happen to be thinking about Europe and terrorism because my daughter is flying to Siena to study abroad in the spring, and she plans to take the train to other places during weekends. I do not want her to go to Paris. Or London. But really, I don't have to justify why I would like to discuss this issue, because, after all, this is a discussion forum, as Rob pointed out. Who asked you to justify anything? Post anything you like. Nobody's making you read or reply to Mark or I. If you wanted to have a private discussion you should have sent an email to your preferred respondents. Problem solved. Also, I care A LOT if Don doesn't start new threads, because I find Don to be smart as hell and I love his perspective on stuff. Don not starting threads is a loss to this small forum. Good for you. I'm sure Don will be happy to send you a nice Libertarian Xmas card. You don't get no presents because it would deincentivize you to work for it. And to address Rob's fascinating response here -- yes, this is really interesting. Even if these guys have "psychological disorders", there remains in France a coordinated effort to radicalize people to a certain religious agenda there (which is not the issue in the U.S. for its mass shootings in total, and I will say again, hence a different thread and discussion), and of course psychologically disturbed folks would be more likely, IMO, to follow such a disturbing agenda. To have 2000 people who are radicalized (and that's just who's on the list) in the immediate vicinity of the Christmas Market that has long been a target, is, again, very different from a random shooting at a country music concert in Vegas. And it needs to be approached differently by government. Can't wait to read what your suggestion is for what the French government different approach will be. Does it include a wall? Also, if Trump gets indicted or impeached for something that plenty of lawyers and even former FEC big shots are cogently arguing is prob not even breaking of campaign finance laws, I will eat my MAGA hat. (sorry, I should have put that last sentence in the other thread) You want that hat with or without cheese? |
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