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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2019 20:25:58 GMT -5
The actual Mueller report, as opposed to what Barr said about it, is incredibly bad for Donald Trump. That's even without knowing what is under the many redactions, without considering the many other investigations. He should be impeached -- this is far worse than Nixon. And Barr should be removed from office. Bill Barr torched his credibility and his legacy in a truly amazing way just to get his spin out there for the many people who unfortunately will never read the actual report. Don't you be one of them. Here is a link, if you didn't have one. t.co/gvgeIOFTyh?amp=1Beware to anyone tempted to argue about this and defend Trump based on spin without reading the report. Dinner conversation at the Conways tonight is gonna be lit.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2019 22:30:56 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2019 23:27:36 GMT -5
What do you get when you cross my favorite Trump quote from the Mueller report with Trump's attempt to dismiss the Mueller report by stealing Game of Thrones intellectual property?
Why, this, of course:
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Post by markesq on Apr 19, 2019 11:27:08 GMT -5
The problem is, the Repubs will just keep repeating the two things in their favor: no active conspiracy found, and no determination of obstruction. For Trump and his supporters, the bar is so low that only if he's an actual criminal might they concede he's not fit to be president. And let me be clear about what I mean: they don't care if he broke the law, they only want to point out that no one has proven that. It's really abominable.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 11:46:54 GMT -5
True, Mueller did not make the "determination" of obstruction. But he made a detailed case for it, and made absolutely clear he thought Congress should make the determination. He also made it clear that the only reason Trump didn't succeed in obstructing the investigation was because a number of his subordinates refused to carry out his direct orders, and that the reason he couldn't reach Trump's intent was because Trump didn't testify. He noted that Trump's written testimony was full of holes and unsatisfactory.
And the Russia stuff is actually damning as fuck. Making the case for a criminal conspiracy was always going to be difficult because of the particular standards that apply. But holy fuck. It's bad.
Have you read the report? I am serious when I say get thee to the report and read it. When I have time, I'll try to take Barr's statements and put them in the context of the report with cites. (Don't know when I'll have time, is the trouble.)
I now think Congress has no choice but to impeach. (And yes, that's reversing my previous position.) Yes, I know the Senate won't vote to remove him from office (though God knows they should). But the Dems should do it all the same. If they simply let this shit go, it's creating a horrible precedent. And the Trumpers will say "see, even the Dems don't think this is as bad as that awful Bill Clinton." They must make a stand. This shit is seriously fucked up.
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Post by markesq on Apr 19, 2019 11:49:27 GMT -5
I haven't had a chance, we're seating a special grand jury for our unit this week, but will get to it asap.
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Post by Vince524 on Apr 19, 2019 11:58:27 GMT -5
I'll probably wait for the movie.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 12:03:54 GMT -5
I'll forgive you for that, Vince, only because I know you will never vote for him. Heh. Check this out. Of all the people to agree with me... (This guy was once a Trump defender...) Weld at least has officially thrown his hat in for the GOP primary. After reading this, if Republicans can vote Trump over Weld...god. Of course, as Barr and Trump are counting on, many will not read this. They will take for granted that Bill Barr has accurately characterized it. I mean, it's not like Barr has a history of inaccurately summarizing important reports...oh wait, he does.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 12:13:24 GMT -5
(Totally have to step away from this damn report and Twitter and get some damn work done. It was absolutely not a coincidence that Barr dumped this report during Easter/Passover week -- he was hoping the timing would help bury it. Not everyone is me, neglecting their work and spoiling their holidays by delving into the damn thing!)
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Post by Vince524 on Apr 19, 2019 19:00:57 GMT -5
I thought Romney hit a good note.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 19:35:32 GMT -5
His first sentence is incorrect. Mueller laid out a ton of detailed evidence on obstruction. He did not make the finding because of OLC guidance that the sitting president cannot be indicted. It's clear, though, that he though the matter should be referred to Congress . And he makes reference to the possibility of criminal charges against Trump once he's out of office. I also, at this point, think that putting the country through an impeachment process is better than the alternative (and that is a change of mind on my part, based on this report--previously, I thought we should grit our teeth and focus on 2020). So I don't share Romney's feeling there. But other that that, I was glad at least that Romney made a strong statement about being sickened and appalled by the stuff in the report. That's important, and pathetically few elected officials on the GOP side are doing it. History will not be kind. I get the sense Romney doesn't think much if Barr, either, after this (also the correct reaction). ETA: Jennifer Taub does a great job in the comments explaining what Mueller did with regard to obstruction (several posts, starting with the one below): <iframe width="11.199999999999989" height="4.199999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 11.2px; height: 4.2px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 5px; top: 537px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_36315478" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="11.199999999999989" height="4.199999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 11.2px; height: 4.2px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 502px; top: 537px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_11426504" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="11.199999999999989" height="4.199999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 11.2px; height: 4.2px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 5px; top: 693px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_61118517" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="11.199999999999989" height="4.199999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 11.2px; height: 4.2px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 502px; top: 693px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_90632157" scrolling="no"></iframe>
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Post by michaelw on Apr 19, 2019 21:26:06 GMT -5
On the question of obstruction:
See? Totally exonerated! What could be more exonerating than that?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 21:38:54 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 21:43:48 GMT -5
On the question of obstruction: See? Totally exonerated! What could be more exonerating than that? It's been absolutely hilarious, in a terrifying kind of way, to see Trump on Twitter do an abrupt about-face from TOTALLY EXONERATED! After he saw Bart's "summary" back to WITCH HUNT! MUELLER IS AN ANGRY DEMOCRAT! again once he saw the full report.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 22:01:27 GMT -5
Happy Easter, Mike Huckabee! Past, might want to remind your daughter about that whole "though shalt not bear false witness" thing.
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