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Post by Optimus on Jul 12, 2019 22:13:08 GMT -5
So, a bit of background for anyone who's missed the "fun..." Bunch of back and forth between Pelosi and some "Progressive" newcomers in the House this week: 1) several of the freshmen tweeting like middle school children, 2) Pelosi telling them in a closed door meeting to cut that shit out, 3) AOC responding by stupidly insinuating that Pelosi is racist, 4) then walking it back the very next day, etc. Now, AOC's douchey "chief of staff" has been tweeting, well, douchey things the past few days too. The official House Democrats twitter account responded: I take Pelosi's side on this. I don't always agree with her decisions (and lack thereof), but she's right that the way these brats act in public is harmful to the party, antithetical to the message, and might very well hand Trump a victory in 2020. But, the House Dems' official account also doing this kind of shit, especially after Pelosi's warning, isn't helping. Also, it's 2019. Nobody who wants to be taken seriously still does the "clapping hands after every word" tweet. Some of these newer, supposedly Progressive congressmen and congresswomen seem to lack the emotional and professional maturity required (at least in theory) for the job and instead act like Congress is high school and that they're The Plastics from Mean Girls. Using Twitter to publicly "clap back" (God, that phrase is stupid) at others is not something that adults do; it's something that 12-year-old brats do. This kind of juvenile shit never helps us, only hurts our chances in 2020 and beyond. I don't think they're just damaging our chances in the next election; they might be damaging the Democrat "brand" for years to come.
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Post by robeiae on Jul 13, 2019 13:28:25 GMT -5
This is all symptomatic, I think, of a much larger problem: the devolution of political discourse--especially among elected officials (with Trump leading the charge), but also including non-elected ones and media types--into social media "sound bite" zingers and memes.
And to be sure, on the Dem side it's the New Girls on the Block who are leading the charge here. And Pelosi is trying hard to maintain some semblance of order, much to her credit.
But I think she's fighting a losing battle. This stuff is only going to get worse going forward, especially since it seems that social media is where people in the professional media go to for stories, almost automatically. After all, a twitter dust-up is easy to cover, can be turned quickly into click-bait, and provides plenty of fireworks.
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Post by mikey on Jul 14, 2019 14:17:50 GMT -5
I think we are finding that the "basket of deplorables" is much bigger than first thought.
You got a basket of deplorables on the left. and a basket of deplorables on the right, and a basket of deplorables in the middle, all screaming at each other "hey!, you're stealing my moves".
I'm thinking the academic types are becoming obsolete with the use of social media.(meaning well thought out policy matters don't mean jack to voters.)
So yeah, it only gets worse from here.
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Post by nighttimer on Jul 14, 2019 17:14:34 GMT -5
If you are born on American soil, you are an American. Period. Full stop. This is not conditional. There is no time limit. There are no restrictions that apply. If you are born in America, you're an American. If you aren't born here, but you come here legally and follow the rules, obey the laws and pledge allegiance to your new country, congratulations! You are an American too.
L-R (Ilhan Omar, Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Talib, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez aka "The Squad")
So The Racist-In-Chief had to Tweet out his racist thoughts. The kind of racism where you don't call them by a racist term, but it's clear to anyone that Pressley, Ocasio-Cortez, Omar and Talib aren't "real" Americans. They have all the wrong colored skin. They have all the wrong "progressive/socialist" thoughts. They don't want to see illegal aliens caged and their children taken away from them. They see ICE as an American Gestapo and the immigration policy of this administration as cruel, maybe even evil.
So the Racist-In-Chief took his fat, pussy-grabbing fingers to the Twitter.
So interesting to see “Progressive” Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly…and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how…it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!
Three out of four of the freshwoman can't go back to their "shithole countries" (Not forgetting. Never forgiving) because the Disunited States of America is that shithole country.
I don't care who doesn't like The Squad. I like The Squad, so I'm not phased by the chattering class and the haters. I ride and die with women who aren't cool with going along and getting along and being useful props for photo shoots with old women who wants to show off Democratic "diversity," only then to be shooed out the room so the adults can make deals and cash their campaign contributions from corporate interests.
Nancy Pelosi is a better foil for Trump than the wormy little Chuck Schumer, but she's too goddamned cautious and afraid to go big. She wants to wait for Trump to fuck up so badly even the Republicans will back away from him holding their noses as if they walked into a hot, airless room full of soiled baby diapers.
Nancy Pelosi has a job to do. She's supposed to not only hold onto her majority, but to build on it and expand it. And if she has to throw four women of color under the bus, back it up, rev it up and run over them, throw it in reverse and do it again, that's fine with some limp "liberals" who like their diversity subservient to their primacy. That is why the same people mad at AOC and the other three women of color are the same people who were royally pissed off when another woman of color called 'bullshit' on Uncle Joe Biden's fond reminiscences over his good time with segregationist senators.
Nancy Pelosi has a job to do. She's trying to protect the moderate Democrats who came to Congress by winning a seat formerly held by a Republican. There's no appetite for the Green New Deal, free college tuition, Medicare For All, or the abolition of ICE in those areas. Omar, Talib, Pressley and Ocasio-Cortez couldn't win a race for country commissioner in these districts. The votes simply aren't there and never will be for that sort of Big Government/Big Spending thinking.
That said, Nancy Pelosi can not allow Trump and the Republicans to run her caucus. Trump is playing Pelosi and she is stupidly falling for it.
So, I'm calling bullshit on Pelosi. And I'm calling bullshit on Trump. And I'm calling bullshit on anyone who is more happy that The Squad had their collective knuckles rapped by Pelosi than they are outraged that the Racist-In-Chief told them to "go back where they came from."
This is Trump being the racist he's always been and gaslighting the Dems by trying to turn a family feud into a civil war and here comes Trump to pour some economy unleaded on it. It's a nice distraction from the Jeffrey Epstein/Donald Trump relationship and what sort of fun they were having with those young, fresh girls.
Because that's what a gaslighter does. Distract. Cause drama. Create conflict. Fuck shit up. If you didn't know now you do.
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Post by mikey on Jul 14, 2019 19:39:48 GMT -5
That said, Nancy Pelosi can not allow Trump and the Republicans to run her caucus. Trump is playing Pelosi and she is stupidly falling for it.
So, I'm calling bullshit on Pelosi. And I'm calling bullshit on Trump. And I'm calling bullshit on anyone who is more happy that The Squad had their collective knuckles rapped by Pelosi than they are outraged that the Racist-In-Chief told them to "go back where they came from."
This is Trump being the racist he's always been and gaslighting the Dems by trying to turn a family feud into a civil war and here comes Trump to pour some economy unleaded on it. It's a nice distraction from the Jeffrey Epstein/Donald Trump relationship and what sort of fun they were having with those young, fresh girls.
Because that's what a gaslighter does. Distract. Cause drama. Create conflict. Fuck shit up. If you didn't know now you do.
Hell yeah he's playing Nancy, he's also playing the fab four, and the five of them are swallowing that shit hook-line-and sinker.
God damn Trump is good at this stuff. Lets see, what was that ICE thing people were talking about yesterday?
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Post by nighttimer on Jul 15, 2019 9:15:38 GMT -5
That said, Nancy Pelosi can not allow Trump and the Republicans to run her caucus. Trump is playing Pelosi and she is stupidly falling for it.
So, I'm calling bullshit on Pelosi. And I'm calling bullshit on Trump. And I'm calling bullshit on anyone who is more happy that The Squad had their collective knuckles rapped by Pelosi than they are outraged that the Racist-In-Chief told them to "go back where they came from."
This is Trump being the racist he's always been and gaslighting the Dems by trying to turn a family feud into a civil war and here comes Trump to pour some economy unleaded on it. It's a nice distraction from the Jeffrey Epstein/Donald Trump relationship and what sort of fun they were having with those young, fresh girls.
Because that's what a gaslighter does. Distract. Cause drama. Create conflict. Fuck shit up. If you didn't know now you do.
Hell yeah he's playing Nancy, he's also playing the fab four, and the five of them are swallowing that shit hook-line-and sinker.
God damn Trump is good at this stuff. Lets see, what was that ICE thing people were talking about yesterday?
You mean the casual and purposeful racism? Hell, yeah he's good at this stuff. Like any good showman, Trump knows what his audience wants and he gives it to them. And cowardly, chickenshit Republicans dummy up and say nothing while speaking loudly with their silence when the Racist-In-Chief tells three natural and one naturalized citizens to "go back where they came from."
Had Barack Obama ever said anything like this about four members of the Freedom Coalition on Sunday morning, the GOP would have started impeachment proceedings by Monday afternoon.
There is no longer any distinction between Trump's racism and the enabling of it by Republicans. If you support Trump and say nothing about his racism, that pretty much means you're fine with it and while you may not as racist as Trump, you are kinda racist yourself.
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Post by mikey on Jul 15, 2019 9:42:04 GMT -5
Don't forget he-man-woman hater misogynist.
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Post by nighttimer on Jul 15, 2019 10:10:30 GMT -5
Don't forget he-man-woman hater misogynist. Sorry for the omission. Totally, my bad.
Is that what you like most about him?
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Post by markesq on Jul 15, 2019 10:21:34 GMT -5
I've stopped thinking the real world exists. That the president of this nation can be so openly racist and people still make excuses or just shrug, it's out of this world. He's a vile human being with virtually no redeeming qualities at all.
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Post by nighttimer on Jul 15, 2019 11:26:15 GMT -5
I've stopped thinking the real world exists. That the president of this nation can be so openly racist and people still make excuses or just shrug, it's out of this world. He's a vile human being with virtually no redeeming qualities at all.
All bourbons are whiskey, but not all whiskey is bourbon. Despite what the closet case from South Carolina might think, while communism is a derivative of socialism, not all socialists are communists.
But we're really doing this? This is the best the Republican "response" gets for Trump's ugly remarks? Graham calling four democratically elected women "commies." What fucking year is this anyway?
On a good day the senior senator from South Carolina is barely tolerable. On a bad day, he's utterly loathsome. He has solidified his position as the Ernst Rohm of the Republican Party.
See Lindsey? Two can play that dirty game. Go fuck yourself if Donald is too busy.
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Post by robeiae on Jul 15, 2019 12:00:40 GMT -5
Allowing that is the case--Trump is a vile human being with no redeeming qualities--I don't think that really changes the central point here: that some of the new progressives in Congress are stupidly lashing out at other Dems--like Pelosi--to the extent that it's going to hurt the Dems overall.
Hardcore Dem party loyalists should probably be thanking Trump right now since he didn't have the good sense to leave well enough alone.
But as to the real world, again I think this is all a consequence of the impact of social media on politics. AOC and her compatriots saw what they say on social media to get "likes" and "retweets." They're driven by the ratio, above all else, regardless if what they're saying is helpful and/or wise imo.
And I think these politicians--I include Trump here--who are so driven by their social media needs (to land zingers and not get ratioed) are acting like they're on social media even when they're not. Look at these recent exchange between AOC and ICE chief Tom Homan from a congressional hearing:
AOC is--in my view--talking like she's on twitter, and she's left looking like a deer in the headlights when things don't go the way she imagined. If she had tweeted some of the remarks she makes--and she probably has--such tweets would have been liked and retweeted over and over again. Any attempt at disagreement would have been washed away. But in a one-on-one situation, faced with someone who knows way more than her, she looks foolish and unprepared, imo.
And this again is no different when it comes to the shit Trump tweets on various issues (Trump's tweets that attack individuals are a whole different level, to be sure).
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Post by nighttimer on Jul 15, 2019 16:43:37 GMT -5
Allowing that is the case--Trump is a vile human being with no redeeming qualities--I don't think that really changes the central point here: that some of the new progressives in Congress are stupidly lashing out at other Dems--like Pelosi--to the extent that it's going to hurt the Dems overall. Hardcore Dem party loyalists should probably be thanking Trump right now since he didn't have the good sense to leave well enough alone. But as to the real world, again I think this is all a consequence of the impact of social media on politics. AOC and her compatriots saw what they say on social media to get "likes" and "retweets." They're driven by the ratio, above all else, regardless if what they're saying is helpful and/or wise imo. And I think these politicians--I include Trump here--who are so driven by their social media needs (to land zingers and not get ratioed) are acting like they're on social media even when they're not. Look at these recent exchange between AOC and ICE chief Tom Homan from a congressional hearing: AOC is--in my view--talking like she's on twitter, and she's left looking like a deer in the headlights when things don't go the way she imagined. If she had tweeted some of the remarks she makes--and she probably has--such tweets would have been liked and retweeted over and over again. Any attempt at disagreement would have been washed away. But in a one-on-one situation, faced with someone who knows way more than her, she looks foolish and unprepared, imo. And this again is no different when it comes to the shit Trump tweets on various issues (Trump's tweets that attack individuals are a whole different level, to be sure). Why? Because one person is a first-term Congesswoman who occasionally doesn't have the full grasp of the facts before speaking and the other is the 45th president of the United States? Yeah, that is a whole different level. But one person is punching up while the other is punching down. What will hurt Dems overall is when old Dems insist on nothing but polite silence and blind loyalty from young Dems. What will hurt Dems overall is when old Dems don't recognize that Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer are not the future of the Party. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ayanna Pressley and Rashid Talib and Ilhan Omar are. If Pelosi is such a skillful politician, why doesn't she realize it is better to have young progressives in her corner instead of sitting quietly in the corner like well-mannered children who don't speak until spoken to? What will destroy the Dems is when people who look just like those four congresswomen stay home in 2020 and Trump and McConnell finish their takeover of the federal judiciary, including the installation of two more Supreme Court judges. Nancy Pelosi's self-serving speeches and photo ops of how diverse Dems are in comparison to the Repubs isn't what drives people like me or my kids to the polls. Joe Biden is a respected and accomplished public servant, but his viewpoints are 20 years behind the times. He's a VCR in a streaming world. Chuck Schumer doesn't energize me to open my wallet and contribute to the reelection of a Joe Manchin, Claire McCaskill or Heidi Heitkamp and I look forward to the day when Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez runs against and takes away Schumer's Senate seat. The cowardice of the Democratic Party is an infuriating embarrassment. The silence of the Republican Party is a national disgrace. If these children in Trump's prison camps were White kids from Norway instead of Latino kids from Mexico, they would have been shut down months ago. The Squad didn't come to Washington to make nice with old bulls and blue dog Democrats. The Squad came to Washington to snatch wigs and that includes Nancy Pelosi's if she is unable or unwilling to accept women of color are not there to be props for her Photo Shopped photo shoots. Trump doubled down on his "If you don't love it, leave it" rhetoric. That is hateful and detestable and anyone who is more upset over an internecine family feud than unbathed children caged in warehouses is bereft of even a shred of human decency. You try and go weeks without brushing your teeth or washing your ass. Then tell me I should be critical of Ocasio-Cortez for telling Pelosi that it's not a good idea to support any bill that gives Stephen Miller more money for his devil's work or because some right-wing website says she got owned by some no-name thug who carries out the evil orders to tear kids away from their mommies and daddies. Nobody but partisans give a damn if Pelosi and Ocasio-Cortez don't like each other. If that's the issue which impacts on who and how someone votes, then they are as silly and stupid and superficial as Trump and Ocasio-Cortez are accused of being. Being an ex-bartender may not be the best prep school for American politics, but neither is being a womanizing bigot who ran several businesses into the ground, declared bankruptcy multiple times and stiffed hundreds of small businesses before reinventing himself as a pitchman for his name being stamped on shit and a reality TV show star with a catchphrase. There's an entirely different dynamic between the scorn of The Squad projected from Pelosi and Trump. Pelosi is afraid as their power grows it will make hers lessen. Trump comes from another place entirely. He likes slapping around women who don't know their place and don't defer to him. That's why White women supported him in 2016 while Black women saw him as the fuckboy he always has been and always will be. AOC isn't always right. No politician is. She has made her fair share of mistakes and will make more to feed the hate of the haters. But her heart is in the right place and at some point, should she continue in politics, her experience and understanding of how politics works, may catch up to her. I would prefer Biden, Pelosi, McCaskill and the other AARP members of the Democratic Party reach out and take these young, impatient women under their wing and teach them not how to play the game, but to play it better until they can grow their ranks. Pelosi's Democratic caucus is broad and diverse and has to incorporate the broad and diverse perspectives of all of them. Four first-time representatives don't carry much clout unless its a wave election the way Newt Gingrich's Contact With America band of Republicans were and Pelosi can't spend all her time addressing or explaining herself to four newbies. But continually mocking and minimizing the impact of The Squad doesn't make Pelosi look strong. It makes her look arrogant by being so openfully disdainful of women of color. Or to put it a way even Pelosi won't be confused what it means: Just keep going out of your way to talk trash about these women. A lot of people who look just like them will go out of their way to stay home in 2020. If Pelosi clapped back at Ocasio-Cortez, Pressley, Omar and Talib to put them in their place. That was a 5 on a 10 scale. Trump pushed it up to 9 because he's racist AF. The only dog whistle he didn't blow was to call The Squad a bunch of uppity Black, Brown and Muslim bitches. But the week is only getting started.
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Post by Optimus on Jul 15, 2019 18:04:31 GMT -5
Actually, no. The overwhelming majority of Democrats do not support a lot of the policy positions of the far-left "DemoBrats" and the more they continue to act like unruly middle school children (e.g., "clapping back" at people on Twitter rather than actually getting anything accomplished on the Hill), the more it will hurt the Dems' chances with swing voters in 2020: www.axios.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-poll-democrats-2020-aeaa3771-f142-4059-b79e-1fed569dfdf9.htmlAnd that's pretty much the ball game. Importantly, this poll was taken BEFORE the most recent drama from the past week or two, so who knows what these numbers would look like today. And, this isn't the first time AOC has polled badly. The more The Plastics...I mean..."The Squad" continues to indulge in their "speaking truth to power" shtick in the form of juvenile pettiness, moronic "clap backs," and continually high-fiving each other on Twitter, rather than shutting the fuck up and actually getting real shit accomplished, the more they turn off not only most members of the party, but the crucial swing voters needed to win back the White House in 2020. All Trump has to do over the next year is continually say "socialism" while letting "The Squad" continue to be political Kryptonite to people who aren't on Twitter (actual voters) by helping the Left devour itself, and they're on their way to an easy 2020 Trump win. I hate that it's looking that way, and definitely don't want it to happen, but if/when it does, the Dems will have no one to blame but The Squad, I mean, themselves.
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Post by Optimus on Jul 16, 2019 21:37:38 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Jul 17, 2019 7:52:05 GMT -5
Trump has met his match: The SquadIt's all just so WWE, so pro wrestling, it's scary. Might as well be the Von Erichs fueding with the Fabulous Freebirds (to date myself). And again, it's all about social media presence.
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