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Post by celawson on Dec 15, 2016 12:39:44 GMT -5
From CNN www.cnn.com/2016/12/15/politics/obamacare-repeal-burwell/index.htmlHealth care chief: Obamacare repeal will be 'chaos'How many times do Trump et al have to say "repeal and replace"? And if she doesn't know the replacement plan that will be implemented, or over what time period it will be implemented, how can she make the assumptions she is making? This is from Trump's website: www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/healthcare-reformRepublicans would be stupid to repeal and not replace. And they would be stupid and cruel to leave many suddenly with no insurance who already had insurance under the ACA. Tom Price is a smart guy, and he has been thinking about this and developing ideas about it for a long time. I say let's see what he has to offer, THEN we can cry impending chaos if it's appropriate.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 15, 2016 12:45:23 GMT -5
Republicans would be stupid to repeal and not replace. And they would be stupid and cruel to leave many suddenly with no insurance who already had insurance under the ACA. Yes, and? I mean, seriously, I agree that they probably won't just eliminate it with no replacement, but don't deny there are plenty who would like to do just that and would if they could.
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Post by celawson on Dec 15, 2016 13:00:43 GMT -5
Why would anyone want to leave millions without insurance, if there are ways that we can avoid that? And beyond the individual stories, I think enough of us are familiar with the high cost of treating uninsured patients - it runs into the billions each year. Why would we want emergency rooms to collapse and hospitals to fail (as they have been) by bearing the brunt of the cost of caring for the uninsured? The ACA did reduce that cost significantly by insuring more people. The GOP would not wish to return to that, as a matter of common sense. kff.org/uninsured/report/uncompensated-care-for-the-uninsured-in-2013-a-detailed-examination/
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Post by Vince524 on Dec 15, 2016 13:28:05 GMT -5
The ACA is a shitstorm in a can. It never should have been passed the way it was because it was unsustainable. Trump has said he wants to keep certain parts, but who knows. The problem with repeal and replace of course is replace with what and what parts? It really needs to be broken down. Take 1 part of it. Say the part that says kids can remain on their parents plan longer. You separate it, and say, do we like that or not. If yes, keep it. Pre-existing conditions is a double edged sword. I have medical conditions. So I've got medical insurance for them. It's not fair if I lose my job and then get another that those conditions aren't covered. But what if a young person who choses not to have health insurance and then goes skiing and turns into a giant snowball taking out a tiny village. He survives, but is in a full body cast. So now he calls an insurance company and is like, "hey cover me, and while your at it, I have some medical bills." That's more like getting fire insurance for your home while the firetrucks are putting out the flames. I've heard the GOP wants to repeal and delay, www.politico.com/story/2016/12/obamacare-republicans-repeal-replace-232025So the effects aren't felt until they can get something else in place. Neither party is without blame here. The GOP under Bush didn't fix this and Obama tried and made a mess out of it.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 15, 2016 13:41:51 GMT -5
Why would anyone want to leave millions without insurance, if there are ways that we can avoid that? And beyond the individual stories, I think enough of us are familiar with the high cost of treating uninsured patients - it runs into the billions each year. Why would we want emergency rooms to collapse and hospitals to fail (as they have been) by bearing the brunt of the cost of caring for the uninsured? The ACA did reduce that cost significantly by insuring more people. The GOP would not wish to return to that, as a matter of common sense. .... except that they never wanted it in the first place and swore to do everything they could to undo it right from the start? I've gotta be honest, celaw, sometimes you sound a bit like the revisionists who want to pretend that the Republicans were against segregation before they were for it, etc. There are times when the GOP has been on the wrong side of history and has quietly tried to pretend it was never so, and I think this is one of those times.
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Post by celawson on Dec 15, 2016 14:00:23 GMT -5
I'm not saying the GOP wanted the ACA. But now that we have hindsight from a massive change in our system that has serious flaws and is likely non-sustainable, I think it makes perfect sense for the GOP to take what we've learned from this experiment and improve things. And to me, improving things would not include kicking millions of people out of coverage. I assume the GOP would agree, and especially Dr. Price who is a physician and took an oath to first do no harm.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 15, 2016 14:10:20 GMT -5
I'm not saying the GOP wanted the ACA. But now that we have hindsight from a massive change in our system that has serious flaws and is likely non-sustainable, I think it makes perfect sense for the GOP to take what we've learned from this experiment and improve things. And to me, improving things would not include kicking millions of people out of coverage. I assume the GOP would agree, and especially Dr. Price who is a physician and took an oath to first do no harm. What you're saying, while not wanting to admit it, is "The ACA was actually a good idea, in retrospect, but we really don't want Obama to get credit for it, so we need to come up with a GOP version." I mean, yes, the ACA is obviously flawed. Our medical system has some problems that aren't going to go away with a little tinkering. At some point we will have to admit that lots of people need medical care who can't afford it and never will, and choose between (a) telling them tough luck, they should have made better life choices; (b) ensure that everyone gets medical care without putting them in bankruptcy or debtors' prison, and figure out how to sell that idea without using the word "socialism."
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Post by celawson on Dec 15, 2016 14:13:56 GMT -5
No, I'm actually not saying the ACA was a good idea. I'm saying our medical system before the ACA was flawed and needed improvements, and now the ACA is also flawed and needs to be changed. But yes, as a physician, I definitely am in favor of people having health insurance. And now that so many more do, I am saying I don't believe the GOP will strip that away.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 15, 2016 14:21:02 GMT -5
No, I'm actually not saying the ACA was a good idea. I'm saying our medical system before the ACA was flawed and needed improvements, and now the ACA is also flawed and needs to be changed. But yes, as a physician, I definitely am in favor of people having health insurance. And now that so many more do, I am saying I don't believe the GOP will strip that away. Despite the fact that they have been saying they want to do that continuously? At this point it would be politically untenable for them to simply tell everyone under the ACA "Sorry, we're cancelling your insurance - you're on your own." I believe they would very much like to do that, but they can't. So yes, they will try to come up with some kind of half-assed replacement. I have serious doubts that it will represent an improvement in any way.
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Post by robeiae on Dec 15, 2016 14:21:20 GMT -5
I'd prefer that people had access to affordable healthcare, that the government could step in to subsidize those who need help, and that insurance actually functioned like it was supposed to function. Insurance is great when it's allowed to do what supposed to do. But when it becomes a system for paying routine costs, it's not doing that. It's just effing up the system, involving insurance companies in healthcare decisions, and adding another layer that needs to get paid, a layer that's not actually proving real service.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 15, 2016 14:25:22 GMT -5
I'd prefer that people had access to affordable healthcare, that the government could step in to subsidize those who need help, and that insurance actually functioned like it was supposed to function. Insurance is great when it's allowed to do what supposed to do. But when it becomes a system for paying routine costs, it's not doing that. It's just effing up the system, involving insurance companies in healthcare decisions, and adding another layer that needs to get paid, a layer that's not actually proving real service. Well, there are some intrinsic flaws in our entire insurance model. I, and most reasonably healthy people, would be a lot better off just paying out of pocket for routine doctor's visits and prescriptions, and having catastrophic coverage for things like car wrecks and cancer. But the current medical industry isn't even set up to accommodate that as a reasonable option.
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Post by robeiae on Dec 15, 2016 14:28:54 GMT -5
Well, let's start by dismantling HMO's, detaching health insurance from employment, and letting people deduct all of their medical expenses.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2016 20:46:00 GMT -5
I've long found it preposterous that health insurance is attached to one's job, and that leaving the job generally means a hassle getting new healthcare.
Another silly thing, at least in New York, was that, prior to Obamacare, the self-employed and unemployed generally had to pay dramatically higher premiums than those employed by bigger companies for comparable insurance. Yeah, that's not right.
I think Obamacare is flawed, but I'm crossing every finger the Republicans have something better ready to roll before ditching it. It worries hell out of me to hear them talking about ending Obamacare as soon as Trump's presidency begins -- yet I've seen no details of a new plan. Nor, from the vague way Trump talks, does it sound like he has one.
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Post by Vince524 on Dec 28, 2016 20:02:11 GMT -5
The issues with the health care were one of those things that needed to be addressed for a long time. The fact is, the GOP had the chance and didn't really do anything. The Obama administration did, but they never got any consensus, either politically or even publicly.
There are no easy answers to it, to be sure.
How the GOP will address it now is anyone's guess.
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Post by celawson on Dec 29, 2016 18:19:34 GMT -5
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