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Post by robeiae on Nov 9, 2016 21:13:21 GMT -5
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Post by Angie on Nov 9, 2016 21:19:39 GMT -5
Yeah - I saw a couple of "I wonder if the election really WAS rigged - by the Republicans!!" comments today. Wishful thinking, I'm sure.
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Post by robeiae on Nov 9, 2016 21:22:21 GMT -5
And to be clear, I get the protests. And people have a right to stage peaceful ones. And maybe all of these people are just honestly reacting to the election. But...the pre-election criticism of Trump supporters is what it is (or was what it was). Such a potential response was being called unprecedented and the like, never mind that it happened to Bush in 2000.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 21:43:26 GMT -5
God knows, I want to punch a goddamn hole through the wall at the thought of Trump as our president. That said, as far as I know, the election was not rigged, so I'm saving my protests for the shit Trump will do rather than protest the results.
And yeah, despite my disgust and general horror at the election results, it does seem rather ironic to see those who condemned Trump for saying he wouldn't accept the election results now refusing to accept the election results.
I'd love to believe it was all a VRWC or Russian tampering. But absent evidence to the contrary, it wasn't. This clod is now our president and we've got to accept it and go forward from there.
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Post by Vince524 on Nov 9, 2016 22:25:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I really don't get the protests. What does it accomplish. "Oh, you really don't like Trump? Well, let's do it again, and only count the blue states."
I can't stand the man, but that's how the system works.
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Post by Angie on Nov 9, 2016 23:02:12 GMT -5
Protesting him isn't going to solve the underlying problem, which is the reasoning most people had for voting for him. But I get that that's a much more difficult and nuanced conversation than, "Grab the torches and pitchforks!!"
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Post by Vince524 on Nov 10, 2016 8:58:59 GMT -5
Protesting him isn't going to solve the underlying problem, which is the reasoning most people had for voting for him. But I get that that's a much more difficult and nuanced conversation than, "Grab the torches and pitchforks!!" Not only that, but it just makes the conversation that needs to happen harder. If all you're doing is demonizing, how can you expect honest discourse and to understand the real fears and concerns that others have.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 9:55:52 GMT -5
Agree. Unfortunately, people increasingly shut out opinions they don't like, and surround themselves solely with those who agree with them. Anyone who doesn't is evil and not worth listening to. Social media and the way most news feeds work facilitate this -- it's possible to surround yourself solely with news and opinions saying what you want to hear.
Except that the rest of the world doesn't go away. It's still out there. Much better to face it and try to understand it.
I say this as someone who voted for Clinton and loathes Trump -- it was a serious mistake for democrats and liberals to demonize and dismiss all of Clinton's critics as sexists, fascists, etc. I got a fair bit of that even after repeatedly making it clear I was voting for her, simply because I persisted in finding her a flawed candidate.
That didn't change my vote (though it pissed me the hell off). But often if you demonize someone lingering at the fence, you drive them to the other side of it.
I know at least one person on that other forum who was at least considering a Trump vote, though I don't know what she did in the end. I know her NOT to be racist, ignorant, or sexist, and she's openly supportive of LBGTQ people. I know she didn't think Trump was awesome.
And I'm sure there are many more like her. They're not evil -- they're coming at things from a different place. One need not agree with that place, but it's crucial to understand it. And IMO it's crucial to find what common ground we can.
I've done my share of wailing this last day or so -- indeed this last few months. But wailing doesn't help. We need to understand one another as best we can, work together where we can come together, and fight where we can't.
And we need to retain our sense of humor. I suspect it will come in handy over the next four years.
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Post by Amadan on Nov 10, 2016 10:11:00 GMT -5
The flag burning pisses me off. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/11/09/student-protesters-burn-american-flags-at-confrontation-over-trump-victory/)
Yeah, they have a right to do it. I'll defend their right to do it.
But it sure doesn't make me sympathetic.
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Post by Vince524 on Nov 10, 2016 12:59:29 GMT -5
I've been hearing a lot of, my kid who has dark skin or Hispanic or yadda, yadda, yadda, is afraid they're gonna be deported or if they're black, made into a slave again.
I know a lot of the blame for that falls on Trump himself, but really what are these parents telling their kids that they think Trump wants to deport American kids with dark skin or reinstitute slavery?
My wife was asking me this AM what happens if someone kills Trump(God forbid), because the hate is so high. If it's before the inauguration, would Pence take over?
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Post by Amadan on Nov 10, 2016 13:05:00 GMT -5
I've been hearing a lot of, my kid who has dark skin or Hispanic or yadda, yadda, yadda, is afraid they're gonna be deported or if they're black, made into a slave again. That was a frequent argument back on AW, and I'm seeing it a lot on my FB feed as well. I have a couple of friends literally saying "If you didn't vote for Clinton, you voted for me to die!" (Because Trump is going to repeal the ACA, and without it they will have no insurance.) Their individual circumstances are complicated and I don't blame them for worrying about the loss of ObamaCare, but that sort of hyperbolic argument doesn't persuade me, and just makes me view them as irrational and disingenuous.
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Post by celawson on Nov 10, 2016 13:08:38 GMT -5
Yes, hyperbolic arguments. My daughter at college in Oregon says some of the girls she knows are stocking up on birth control because they think it will be taken away. I mean, come on.
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Post by celawson on Nov 10, 2016 18:45:44 GMT -5
I received this mesaage from our California Highway Patrol today:
Message sent via Nixle | Go to nixle.com | Unsubscribe Agency Logo Thursday November 10, 2016, 3:06 PM California Highway Patrol - Southern Division Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Community: California Highway Patrol's response to demonstrators on US-101 near downtown L.A.
Freedom of Speech and Freeway Speeds don’t make sense
The California Highway Patrol and local allied agencies, such as the Los Angeles Police Department, were inundated with calls for service on the evening of November 9, 2016. Numerous motorists called 9-1-1 to report that several areas of the US-101, near downtown L.A. were being taken over by large groups of people holding signs and shouting at passing vehicles. Although it’s not entirely clear what the purpose of blocking the freeway and freeway ramps was, there was enough indications of political discourse. The groups became verbally aggressive and physically uncooperative; many demonstrators took a seated position and refused to follow officer’s orders. The group’s reckless actions endangered thousands of innocent motorists because their path/exit was blocked and were being kept in place against their will for an extended period of time. The group’s behavior also caused the response of hundreds of police officers, literally taking them away from their areas of responsibility and delaying emergency service response all over Los Angeles County. After several hours of Law Enforcement presence and enforcement actions, US-101 was reopened in the early morning hours. The California Highway Patrol takes pride in being able to safeguard the rights of every citizen, including freedom of speech and freedom to assemble. However, when an assembly changes from peaceful to unlawful, and the actions of some reckless citizens begin to infringe on another person’s rights, including endangering them, the CHP will take swift action to restore safety. As the case last night on the 101 freeway proved, enforcement action became necessary due to so many lives being endangered and ultimately, the groups intended message was lost in the chaos. We encourage everyone in our communities to speak their mind and assemble with other like-minded people, but please do so peacefully and at an appropriate place. We cannot stress enough how dangerous it is for even one pedestrian to walk onto a freeway; we see too many collisions with tragic results as it is already. It should be noted the actions of the group yesterday became unlawful as they walked on the freeway and their actions became criminal at the point they began affecting another person’s freedom and movement. The law enforcement community is prepared to respond, prepared to take immediate action and ultimately, prosecute to the full extent of the law any person that knowingly endangers another or infringes on their rights. We are ALL one community and one nation, please keep the peace and respect one another. Photo Credit: Luis Sinco/LA Times For full details, view this message on the web.
Sent by California Highway Patrol - Southern Division 411 Central Ave, Glendale, CA 91203
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Nov 10, 2016 19:53:47 GMT -5
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Post by celawson on Nov 10, 2016 20:34:36 GMT -5
Thank you, I will. After I stop crying from your avatar scaring me.
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