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Post by Amadan on Jul 12, 2017 8:45:13 GMT -5
That's just silly. It doesn't take a conspiracy theory to understand why Keynesian economics is taught in government school, any more than it takes a conspiracy theory to explain why respect for authority is number one in a classroom of students or why more and more children are diagnosed as problematic and drugged to get through the school day every year. It simply take an understanding of the incentives inherent in bureaucracies, a smattering of non-Keynesian economics, a smidgeon of public choice theory, and the basic ability of logical integration. Does it ever even.... cross your mind.... as a remote possibility.... that society is complex and that things like "increasing numbers of children diagnosed with ADD" and various other social problems might have.... multiple causes, some of which are actually not a direct result of Evil Gummint Policy? You really are the hammer that sees Every. Fucking. Thing. As a nail. Jesus Christ, dude, most "government schools" (and other schools as well) are doing well just to teach kids algebra and the basic facts of science and history (not "government facts carefully occluding the Truth that libertarians have discovered" but basic facts like when such and such war started and ended). Your average teenager is simply not interested or equipped to deal with concepts like Keynesian vs. non-Keynesian economics, or Public Choice Theory. I'm not saying they couldn't be, but the level of effort it would take to get the general population to that level is way beyond what is feasible (and that would have been true 200 years ago), and that's not just because of fedgummintskoolz You think every school in the country would be Sidwell Friends if not for the Department of Education brainwashing all the proles to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance? Also, your definition of "critical thinking" and "logical integration" is that of every idealogue - i.e., those who agree with you have it, those who disagree with you don't. So it doesn't mean much when you keep decrying the lack of such skills in the general populace, since I take it to mean "Most people don't agree with me; if everyone was educated, everyone would agree with me."
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Post by Angie on Jul 18, 2017 20:30:46 GMT -5
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Post by poetinahat on Jul 18, 2017 20:34:42 GMT -5
Jesus wept. Read a book, Mr. President. Ideally a high-school civics book.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 20:38:09 GMT -5
Donald Trump needs some remedial lessons in how our system of government works.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 21:06:45 GMT -5
I can hear his next speech now:
"The federal government has three branches. A lot of people don't know that "
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Post by poetinahat on Jul 18, 2017 21:08:35 GMT -5
Sadly, he'd be right. At least until he and his Dementors have done away with at least one of them.
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Post by maxinquaye on Jul 19, 2017 10:47:43 GMT -5
I think that ACA is the perfect illustration of the cowardly nature of the Democratic party, where they basically spiked the better solution - single payer - in order not to spook some real or imagined demographic out there who would go “Communism!” if they proposed it.
ACA is the perfect illustration to this craven cowardice the party has had ever since they started with the New Democrat thing.
The simple solution: expand Medicare gradually until it covers everyne. Start with the poor and the kids, then include everyone. Scale it up. And for the love of god, start a central buying scheme where a 4000 pound gorilla of crusty purchasing-agents gets to sit down with the pharmaceutical industries and drive down prices.
But no, they went for this monstrosity instead, which is a hundred times more complicated, and in effect creates a tax you have to pay which goes straight into the coffers of the insurance companies. It’s a tax for private corporations that no other private corporations enjoy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 15:58:37 GMT -5
So. The bill, such as it is (whatever it is), moves forward, just barely, for debate. Pence had to break the tie -- Collins and Murkowski voted to kill it. McCain, to the disappointment of many, voted to go forward with debate. Honestly, I too was hoping he'd vote to simply kill it.
But for those of you inclined to throw rocks at him as a hypocritical coward who bowed to party over country, or those who are crowing in triumph that he's supporting the Trump party line at last, please listen to his speech.
He stresses, in strong terms, that he will not vote for this bill as it stands, that he thinks it's a shell of a bill, and he speaks against the process that's been used to produce it. He states that he voted yes because he wants real bipartisan discussion on how to genuinely improve health care for Americans. He begs Senators to ignore loudmouths and party extremists, and produce something that will be a compromise and be better than what we have.
Along the way, he takes some obvious potshots at Trump and the alt-right -- e.g., that this isn't about winning or crushing the other side, and that the Senate is equal to the President and shouldn't kowtow.
I know many will be inclined to regard his vote as a sign he's a coward rather than a maverick.
I don't. I think what the man is trying to do, with death in front of him, is do his level best to restore order and faith in our legislative branch -- and remind it that its job isn't kissing the ass of extremists or cowering before the president, or to just block the other side, but to work for Americans.
For what it is worth, I believe him when he says he'll vote no on passing the bill if it remains as it is, or anything close to it. I don't think his vote and speech were intended as a capitulation, but as a gauntlet.
Anyone agree, or am I alone? Listen to the speech (better to listen than read a transcript -- tone and emphasis are important here) first. It is the speech, not the vote, that makes me say this.
ETA:
Heh. I expect to lose a buttload of twitter followers by taking this stance on the speech, or will end up blocking some. I'm already getting angry messages. I'll have to block a couple peeps. People are ridiculous. They really are.
Anyway, it's what I think. Time will tell if I'm right or wrong. Meanwhile, all I can do is keep writing him and others who might be amenable to not cave to a shitty bill for partisan reasons.
Guess I'm a maverick. I never did care much if people hate me for what I think.
Either that or a contrarian bitch. Potato, potahto.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 21:02:44 GMT -5
I have to say, though -- if McCain DOES end up voting yes on a shitty bill supported only by a bare Republican majority, and the speech really is just a bunch of hot air, I'm going to be really disappointed and upset -- even if the bill doesn't ultimately pass.
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Post by nighttimer on Jul 25, 2017 22:08:21 GMT -5
So. The bill, such as it is (whatever it is), moves forward, just barely, for debate. Pence had to break the tie -- Collins and Murkowski voted to kill it. McCain, to the disappointment of many, voted to go forward with debate. Honestly, I too was hoping he'd vote to simply kill it. But for those of you inclined to throw rocks at him as a hypocritical coward who bowed to party over country, or those who are crowing in triumph that he's supporting the Trump party line at last, please listen to his speech. He stresses, in strong terms, that he will not vote for this bill as it stands, that he thinks it's a shell of a bill, and he speaks against the process that's been used to produce it. He states that he voted yes because he wants real bipartisan discussion on how to genuinely improve health care for Americans. He begs Senators to ignore loudmouths and party extremists, and produce something that will be a compromise and be better than what we have. Along the way, he takes some obvious potshots at Trump and the alt-right -- e.g., that this isn't about winning or crushing the other side, and that the Senate is equal to the President and shouldn't kowtow. I know many will be inclined to regard his vote as a sign he's a coward rather than a maverick. I don't. I think what the man is trying to do, with death in front of him, is do his level best to restore order and faith in our legislative branch -- and remind it that its job isn't kissing the ass of extremists or cowering before the president, or to just block the other side, but to work for Americans. For what it is worth, I believe him when he says he'll vote no on passing the bill if it remains as it is, or anything close to it. I don't think his vote and speech were intended as a capitulation, but as a gauntlet. Anyone agree, or am I alone? Listen to the speech (better to listen than read a transcript -- tone and emphasis are important here) first. It is the speech, not the vote, that makes me say this. ETA: Heh. I expect to lose a buttload of twitter followers by taking this stance on the speech, or will end up blocking some. I'm already getting angry messages. I'll have to block a couple peeps. People are ridiculous. They really are. Anyway, it's what I think. Time will tell if I'm right or wrong. Meanwhile, all I can do is keep writing him and others who might be amenable to not cave to a shitty bill for partisan reasons. Guess I'm a maverick. I never did care much if people hate me for what I think. Either that or a contrarian bitch. Potato, potahto. JUST. CUT. THE. CRAP. Okay? Ain't nothin' remotely "heroic" about jetting across the country on a private jet to make sure more Americans SUFFER AND DIE. It don't make you a statesman to tell others who have cancer "Tough Titty, Kitties" because you got it like that and they don't. You're not a Profile in Courage because you've been in the Senate for 30 fucking years and most of your friends who served with you are retired, dead or both. Giving a big speech on the Senate floor to move forward a debate on how to strip healthcare away from millions of Americans deserves dead silence, not standing ovations. Handing a victory to a guy who denigrated your military service don't make you a maverick. John McCain hasn't been a maverick for YEARS. He's the guy who inflicted a brainless airhead on the United States and directly contributed to the climate that allowed an even bigger brainless airhead to take over the stinking shithouse that is the Grand Old Party and hand the nuclear codes over to him. McCain is not part of any solutions. He's a status quo political hack who loves the spotlight and the media fawning over him. John McCain gave up being a "maverick" to be Just Another Republican. You have made a rather common mistake, CassandraW. You confused giving a speech about principles and political courage with McCain actually being a principled, courageous politician. Maybe he was. But he's not now. John McCain hasn't been that guy for, oh, give or take a decade or two... I have to say, though -- if McCain DOES end up voting yes on a shitty bill supported only by a bare Republican majority, and the speech really is just a bunch of hot air, I'm going to be really disappointed and upset -- even if the bill doesn't ultimately pass. You'll be disappointed and upset, but many others will be uninsured, grievously ill, suffering without medicine or treatment, lingering in agony and dying broke and in pain. They'll be a lot more than disappointed and upset. Appreciate the McCain caveat though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 0:36:05 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Jul 28, 2017 7:54:16 GMT -5
Well, bipartisan reform or nothing doesn't sound good to me, since I'm not seeing the bipartisan angle to approach this. Which just leaves nothing.
Which means we--all of us--are stuck with an horrible piece of legislation, but we'll end up just living with it, acting like it's just the way it is, and--if anything--get some more programs to fix the the problems caused by it. Brilliant.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 8:56:15 GMT -5
It beats that bill. Anything beats that bill.
They had seven years to come up with a viable alternative that lowered costs. Instead, they were resorting to ramming through, at midnight, a shitty skeleton of a bill a tiny committee came up with behind closed doors and no one saw until the last minute, that the CBO, a bipartisan group of governors, the AMA, insurers and the AARP, among others, believed was an utter disaster that would have dramatically raised premiums as well as cut millions off the health insurance rolls.
Sure, it would have gone to committee. But given their failure to come up with anything decent so far, why think this time will be the charm? I mean, what kind of bill is it if the Senate only wants to pass it if Paul Ryan guarantees the House won't do the same?
Perhaps now they-- the moderates -- will focus on issues with healthcare and the ACA instead of just mindlessly trying to torpedo it and cater to the wingnuts.
The ACA is flawed for sure. But this thing was a disaster. I applaud Collins, Murkowski, and McCain for not only recognizing it (it's clear many Repubs recognized it), but for having the courage to vote that way. They will take a shitload of heat from their party for it, but it was the right thing to do when things got to that pass.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 12:15:02 GMT -5
Senators Collins and Murkowski just awed me this last couple of weeks, sticking to their guns in the face of party pressure.
And let's not forget Senator Mazie Hirono, who has stage 4 cancer and dragged herself in for this vote. I'm lost in admiration.
Whether you like the way they voted or not, these three women showed tremendous strength.
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Post by robeiae on Jul 28, 2017 12:38:59 GMT -5
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