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Post by robeiae on Jul 6, 2017 11:55:52 GMT -5
Whatever.
I'm not defending Trump. I've noted repeatedly how bad I think he is. Nowhere am I saying anything close to what you just implied I am saying. In fact, I specifically agreed with you here, that his response to Mika was worse then her comments.
But I can still find fault with other people or orgs who happen to be critical of Trump, if I think they cross lines, too. And that's still what this thread is about for me: CNN behaving badly by going after a private citizen for a single post on twitter, a post that--again--was not a threat, did not breach someone's privacy, or anything along those lines.
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Post by Vince524 on Jul 6, 2017 11:58:14 GMT -5
The biggest issue here is that CNN publicly threatened to out this guy. Look, if they want to spend their time looking into the gif, be my guest. If it had come from someone within the Trump camp, then it's a legitimate news story. If they had chose to say The Gif was created by Joe Schmo who lives in his parents basement and making gifs while surfing the net one handed, fine. But threatening him this way reads, if you or anyone else mock CNN in the future, we will name you and let the other internet Trolls lose on you and your family.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 12:07:29 GMT -5
Just dropping back to note this:
Kathy Griffin's photo was absolutely worse than the CNN gif. It may have been intended as a joke (so might the gif), but it is unfunny for similar reasons -- because there are too many kooks out there who think it would be a good idea to commit such an act. It is worse because (a) it singles out a specif person, and one who might well be someone an assassin would target, (2) it depicts murder, not just a beating, and (3) Griffin's B-level fame spread the photo far and wide. But even taking Griffin aside, assuming it was just Trump's bloody severed head, it would be objectively worse.
The Julius Caesar thing is NOT in the same class at all since the idea of a leader (Caesar or Trump) being assassinated is depicted as a BAD thing, not a desirable thong, both in Shakespeare's play and in that production of it. Moreover, using the current leader is a very common time-honoured tradition in productions of Caesar, with a specific point -- to bring the point home more immediately to a modern audience.
You need not agree, and obviously don't, but I find veiled small penis jokes to be harmless vulgarity at worst, and anything involving violence to be worse -- especially if it in some way plays to a climate or audience that favors such violence. IMO, Griffin and Hansoloasshole both did that. Yuck.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 12:10:15 GMT -5
The biggest issue here is that CNN publicly threatened to out this guy. Look, if they want to spend their time looking into the gif, be my guest. If it had come from someone within the Trump camp, then it's a legitimate news story. If they had chose to say The Gif was created by Joe Schmo who lives in his parents basement and making gifs while surfing the net one handed, fine. But threatening him this way reads, if you or anyone else mock CNN in the future, we will name you and let the other internet Trolls lose on you and your family. Even Hassoloasshole said CNN did not threaten him. That's spin, IMO, intended to counter Trump's icky National Enquirer thing. See my post on the last page. Am I like Robo? No one reads my posts. OK. Off to a lunch meeting. I really am gone now. Have fun.
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Post by robeiae on Jul 6, 2017 12:44:21 GMT -5
Even Hassoloasshole said CNN did not threaten him. Of course he did. He's afraid. If he publicly said "they threatened to dox me," he'd have every reason to expect them to go ahead and dox him, no? I, of course, don't know anything about him. But it's not much of a stretch to allow that doxing him could not only lead to all kinds of harassment, but also the loss of his job. Or worse. Hey, the guy's a troll who posts racist crap. We know that now. He might deserve to lose his job--or worse--in our opinions. But from his standpoint now, it's reasonable to suppose he's desperate to protect himself. What CNN did here was WRONG, imo. Grossly wrong. No one really commented on my citation of the Hulk Hogan/Gawker documentary. But I think there are salient points there. While it's true that having billionaires going after news orgs, trying to bury them, discredit them, or even buy them to silence them is a serious problem--one brought home by the current President--it's also true that having news orgs going after private individuals (with presumably limited resources) is a serious problem. And the latter is exactly what we have here. Justifying it in the moment, simply because of Trump, is no good, imo.
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Post by nighttimer on Jul 6, 2017 17:58:08 GMT -5
Sure looks like a problem. Lol. The full quote: I most certainly do have a problem with CNN gong after some nobody and threatening them with exposure for creating a nothing gif. Yes. I was already well aware you have a problem with CNN and have had that problem for quite some time even when its not "some nobody" they're exposing as a raving asshole. No, what's important is news orgs want to know why Trump is jacking gif's from a racist, anti-Semitic, sexist, Islamophobic shitposter. That's kind of what news orgs do. Because its news. Just for the sake of accuracy at no point did Mika make a joke about Trump's penis size. She made fun of the size of his "teensy" hands. "Teensy" does not rhyme with "penis." That's you and Trump conflating small hands into a jab about small penis. Maybe there are better ways to needle Trump, but aiming at his vanity and ego are two enormous targets and very hard to miss. It's not possible for Mika Brzezinski to descend to the depraved, degenerate and disgusting levels of Donald Trump. She's certainly never been caught on audio bragging how she can "grab 'em by the dick." You mean this? I'm afraid I still do not find this to be anywhere close to being in a class with Trump's tweet. The first half is legitimate political critique. The second half is a nose thumbing joke that is on a par with the Cheerios box. And that's taking aside the fact that she's a talking head with .3% of the country as an audience, while he is POTUS. Watch the video of it: dailycaller.com/2017/06/29/heres-the-morning-joe-segment-that-preceded-trumps-tweets-video/But I do agree that Trump's shit is worse because he's President. I don't agree that this means I have to give Mika a pass for mocking the penis size of the POTUS. Seriously, you're trying to argue that the clotheslining of CNN gif is somehow offensive, but can't allow that Mika's comments are in the same league? I just can't wrap my head around that, at all. Mika's comments are far more offensive. She's mocking an actual person, a human being (even if he is a horrible human being). The gif is showing Trump getting the best of a network, a business, not attacking a reporter. If the CNN logo was Mika's head, I think that would be a very different thing. But it's not. The meaning is clear, imo. It's not offensive and it's not encouraging people to attack reporters. Not offensive to you and to you not encouaging people to attack reporters. In a time where Republican congressional candidates are physically attacking reporters and being applauded for doing so by Trump, the press has every right to be wary about a guy who says they are the enemy of the American people. Oh, and I watched your video. Then I watched another video and I'm STILL not hearing Brzezinski "mocking" Trump's Junk. Can you tell me at what second I need to stop the video so I can catch what only you and Trump seem to be hearing? Whatever. I'm not defending Trump. I've noted repeatedly how bad I think he is. Nowhere am I saying anything close to what you just implied I am saying. In fact, I specifically agreed with you here, that his response to Mika was worse then her comments. But I can still find fault with other people or orgs who happen to be critical of Trump, if I think they cross lines, too. And that's still what this thread is about for me: CNN behaving badly by going after a private citizen for a single post on twitter, a post that--again--was not a threat, did not breach someone's privacy, or anything along those lines. You are defending Trump. You're trying to make Mika Brzezinski's quip about Trump's "teensy" hand a south of the beltline jab at Trump's junk. You're hyped over CNN exposing a vile shitposter as a vile shitposter, but see no violent intent of Trump reliving his Wrestlemania takedown, but with the CNN logo superimposed over Linda McMahon's hubby's mug. You're offended from what you perceive as poor journalistic practices by CNN, but "shrug/whatever" Trump's unpresidential practices as Trump just being Trump. Saying on one hand " Trump is bad" but on the other, " but so are the ones critical of him when they are critical in a way I disapprove of or for reasons I don't agree with" is not splitting the difference. It's taking one side to task for behavior out of bounds because it's not normal while blowing off Trump's behavior because we should be used to it by now and take it as normal. I don't see it that way and others in this thread have said the same thing in different ways. It's okay if you don't think you're defending Trump, but you're certainly not denouncing him with anything remotely resembling the same vigor you're lambasting CNN and Brzezinski. There's little doubt in the mind of many Americans that the President of the United States occupies a much loftier perch of perch of prominence than a morning TV show host or a third-rated news channel. The spat between CNN, Mika Brzezinski and Trump does none of their reputations any favors, but it plays well with their fans and its great for all their ratings. Which is one reason why Trump picks most of his fights with television journalists instead of print. It's his medium and television, including Morning Joe and CNN, helped make the monster which is trying to slay them now. Karma's a nasty beeyotch. Even Hassoloasshole said CNN did not threaten him. Of course he did. He's afraid. If he publicly said "they threatened to dox me," he'd have every reason to expect them to go ahead and dox him, no? I, of course, don't know anything about him. But it's not much of a stretch to allow that doxing him could not only lead to all kinds of harassment, but also the loss of his job. Or worse. Hey, the guy's a troll who posts racist crap. We know that now. He might deserve to lose his job--or worse--in our opinions. But from his standpoint now, it's reasonable to suppose he's desperate to protect himself. What CNN did here was WRONG, imo. Grossly wrong. Pardon, but I believe what you've done here is what attorneys call "assume facts not in evidence." You don't know if HanAssholeSolo is afraid. That's purely hypothetical speculation on your part. For all we know he might be thrilled! He's become a cause celebre. I'm surprised he hasn't shown up on Fox and Friends to take a victory lap. You're right you don't know anything about him, but what we DO know is his how he feels about niggers, Muslims, women, liberals, and it's pretty nasty. "Doxxing" him could lead to all kinds of harassment. He could lose his job. He could also end up featured at VDARE, InfoWars, Breitbart News, The National Review, or a keynote speaker at the next Republican National Convention. That's hypothetical speculation too, but it's just as plausible in our instant celebrity obsessed culture as your doom and gloom scenarios.
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Post by Christine on Jul 6, 2017 18:03:37 GMT -5
Trump is still an actual person, with actual friends and family. We already know--from the primary season--that he takes it personal when someone mocks his hands, because he sees it as a comment about his penis size. Mika knows this, I'm sure, otherwise her comments make no sense. In fact, her tweet back to him (the Cheerios) demonstrates that she knew exactly what had gotten under his skin. Yes. That. Is. Why. She said it. Not because he actually has a small penis (who knows; who fucking cares) and not (imo) because she wanted to spread a "rumor" that Trump has a small penis, but because he is so ridiculously sensitive about the very suggestion that he might be in possession of one. The mockery is, and always has been, about his narcissism, his hyper-sensitivity to something so inconsequential (especially as it relates to being the President), and his utter inability to let anything go, especially, apparently, when it has to do with the perceived size of his dick. You can say that particular line of mockery is inappropriate because it's not substantive enough. I see that point, but I pretty much disagree--I think it's important to highlight what I consider to be a fatal flaw in a U.S. President, along with the fake Time covers, etc.--though of course it shouldn't take up the entire news cycle. However, I reject the idea that this is "meaner" or more "offensive" than the gif because poor Trump is an "actual person" who just wants to be loved and feels shamed or hurt by comments about his wee-wee. No one cares about his wee-wee except for him, and that's the point.We're even, because I find your depiction of Mika's tiny hand jokes as horrible slurs on Trump's penis ridiculous. Same. Are we evil? I don't want to be unsympathetic. And yet, I find myself wholly unsympathetic.
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Post by robeiae on Jul 6, 2017 20:36:22 GMT -5
But who cares about a CNN logo pasted on Vince McMahon's body for some wrestling shtick, which by definition is not real?
Mocking Trump's penis size--which I agree is intended to hurt him--is mean to him, is offensive to him.* Similarly, Trump's comments about Mika are mean to her, are intended to hurt her.
In contrast, the gif isn't mean to anyone. How can it be?
Again, there's a very clear qualitative difference here.
* For clarity's sake here--though I fear this still won't get through--I don't give a crap about Trump's feelings. He's an ass and insults other people freely. But that doesn't mean I can't identify comments from people like Mika for what they are, what the intent is. And the intent is hurt Trump on a personal level, not to criticize his actions as President, his policies, or anything along those lines. And again, people are free to take that route. But there's nothing high-minded about it. Because it's the same route Trump usually takes.
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Post by robeiae on Jul 6, 2017 20:46:36 GMT -5
Pardon, but I believe what you've done here is what attorneys call "assume facts not in evidence." You don't know if HanAssholeSolo is afraid. That's purely hypothetical speculation on your part. For all we know he might be thrilled! He's become a cause celebre. I'm surprised he hasn't shown up on Fox and Friends to take a victory lap. You're right you don't know anything about him, but what we DO know is his how he feels about niggers, Muslims, women, liberals, and it's pretty nasty. "Doxxing" him could lead to all kinds of harassment. He could lose his job. He could also end up featured at VDARE, InfoWars, Breitbart News, The National Review, or a keynote speaker at the next Republican National Convention. That's hypothetical speculation too, but it's just as plausible in our instant celebrity obsessed culture as your doom and gloom scenarios. Sure, he could be thrilled. Except no one knows who he is, so it's kinda hard for him to get any attention. I understand he deleted his reddit account. But let's assume the reverse: that he's not scared at all and that when he said he didn't think he was threatened by CNN, he was being 100% truthful. If that's true, then why did he apologize profusely to CNN? Obviously, you'd have to allow that his apology was 100% heartfelt, that he regretted every thing he'd posted, that he's had an epiphany and turned over a new leaf. So...would you like to offer some odds here? What do you actually think? 1) racist troll completely changed who he was, top to bottom, for no reason whatsoever when CNN contacted him (and is therefore now a "good guy") OR 2) racist troll got scared when CNN tracked him down, so apologized for all his shit in the hopes that would keep CNN off of his back Or do you have another explanation?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 21:09:59 GMT -5
He deleted the reddit account before he spoke with CNN, at least according to CNN (and hanssoloassholiowhatever has not contradicted it -- as I also noted, he instead affirmed that CNN made no threats). I posted a link to this earlier in the thread, but since no one reads my posts, here it is again -- see the third sentence: And I have another explanation, actually. 3) He was having stupid anonymous obnoxious "fun" stirring people up, and when confronted with it, he realized how harmful and awful it was, and was genuinely sorry. It could be any one of those things, but nighttimer is correct: we don't know. We do have his apology, however, which supports theory 3). www.reddit.com/r/MarchAgainstTrump/comments/6l9xgh/final_post_by_hansoloasshole_creator_of_the_cnn/ (bolding mine) If I understand the timeline correctly, things went like this: -- CNN reporter wanted to find out where Trump was getting his gif from (this is not the first obnoxious thing Trump has retweeted, as MichaelW pointed out upthread). -- Reporter discovered that the person who created the original gif had posted a shit ton of other ugly posts -- far uglier than that gif (and offensive by anyone's standard who isn't a KKK member). -- Reporter discovers who Hansdumbass is, using details in his public reddit profile. (this isn't necessarily difficult to do, and does not require special resources. I identified someone that way once.) --Reporter reaches out to Hans for comment, who does not immediately reply. No threats. No discussion occurs. -- Hansassholio is horrified, realizes that if he is publicly connected with his user name, he could lose his job, hastily issues apology and deletes reddit account. -- Hansassholeguy returns reporter's call, points to apology and deletion of account and asks to remain anonymous. -- CNN does not make any deal with Hansassholishperson, but is currently respecting his request because Hans is a private citizen, and because of Hans' deletion, apology, etc. CNN words this poorly, and shitstorm ensues, probably initiated by Trump supporters eager to distract from the enquirer story and say "see, the left does it too." I found this article this morning: www.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politics/kfile-reddit-user-trump-tweet/index.html
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Post by nighttimer on Jul 6, 2017 21:19:13 GMT -5
Pardon, but I believe what you've done here is what attorneys call "assume facts not in evidence." You don't know if HanAssholeSolo is afraid. That's purely hypothetical speculation on your part. For all we know he might be thrilled! He's become a cause celebre. I'm surprised he hasn't shown up on Fox and Friends to take a victory lap. You're right you don't know anything about him, but what we DO know is his how he feels about niggers, Muslims, women, liberals, and it's pretty nasty. "Doxxing" him could lead to all kinds of harassment. He could lose his job. He could also end up featured at VDARE, InfoWars, Breitbart News, The National Review, or a keynote speaker at the next Republican National Convention. That's hypothetical speculation too, but it's just as plausible in our instant celebrity obsessed culture as your doom and gloom scenarios. Sure, he could be thrilled. Except no one knows who he is, so it's kinda hard for him to get any attention. I understand he deleted his reddit account. But let's assume the reverse: that he's not scared at all and that when he said he didn't think he was threatened by CNN, he was being 100% truthful. If that's true, then why did he apologize profusely to CNN? Obviously, you'd have to allow that his apology was 100% heartfelt, that he regretted every thing he'd posted, that he's had an epiphany and turned over a new leaf. So...would you like to offer some odds here? What do you actually think? 1) racist troll completely changed who he was, top to bottom, for no reason whatsoever when CNN contacted him (and is therefore now a "good guy") OR 2) racist troll got scared when CNN tracked him down, so apologized for all his shit in the hopes that would keep CNN off of his back Or do you have another explanation? I don't have to allow that HanAssholeSolo's apology was "100 % heartfelt." Why should I? Based upon how he feels about someone like me, why the hell WOULD I?Do I have any explanation for why HanAssholeSolo apologized profusely. Do I need one? Once they get caught, lots of creeps get religion and are all apologies when they learn to their shock they aren't as anonymous as they think they are. Or maybe HanAssholeSolo is simply a sniveling little punk-ass chickenshit coward who shit his pants when "CNN" popped up on his Caller I.D. Just another online bad-ass keyboard commando who talks big until he gets called out. Really, I can't say I give two dead dog balls because I don't allocate much of my finiite time attempting to dope out why shitposting, maggoty trolls do the evil they do and no time at all trying to climb into the rancid, stinking sewer of their twisted brains. Maya Angelou said, " When someone tells you who they are, believe them the first time." Don believes HanAssholeSolo is an "artist." I believing he's a weasley racist wank rag who makes a strong case for retroactive abortion. That's what I actually think. I don't enable racists and I don't make excuses for them either. I leave that to the likes of Trump.
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Post by Christine on Jul 6, 2017 21:23:07 GMT -5
But who cares about a CNN logo pasted on Vince McMahon's body for some wrestling shtick, which by definition is not real? Okay, if the gif would been of an actual reporter (say, the one who was actually assaulted a month ago) with a CNN head, it would have been "worse." But claiming something is "not real" is not a valid defense against a bad message. It's a bad message, at a time where the media in general is being called fake and being portrayed as the enemy, and where a reporter has recently been body-slammed by a politician. I don't think the gif is criminal (inciting violence), but it is driving home Trump's message over the last several months -- media is the enemy and need to be stomped. Sure, you can see the gif and that message as "figurative" if you're a non-violent person. And maybe that's even how it was intended (I tend to doubt it based on Trump's history of rhetoric) but even then, it's shaky ground because, messaging. It's not about who's "hurt." It's about what message is being sent and whether it's legit or not. I'm not disgusted by Trump's response to Mika because it hurt her feelings. The reasons why Trump's response was inappropriate have been stated already in the thread. It's not about being "mean." It's about the message it sent, once the President retweeted it. I agree there is a very clear qualitative difference. It's so interesting how the opposing views see that qualitative difference so oppositely. You are so certain that Mika is trying to hurt Trump on a personal level. So sure. That's the intent. To hurt him. I just think that's ridiculous. You know what? I don't think Trump's intent is to hurt anyone either. He lashes out in defense. To protect his ego. He doesn't seem like the kind of person who wants to hurt people just to hurt them. He's just so fragile when it comes to the size of his hands (and all the horrible implications therein) that he lashes out. That's sad. I'd feel sorry for him if he wasn't a 71-year-old man who not only has never learned he isn't the center of the universe and no one cares what size his penis is but who also happens to be the President. That said, I agree there's plenty to criticize elsewise. As far as I can tell, the media is keeping up on that front, too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 21:25:02 GMT -5
God, I really, really want to stop being forced to think about Trump's penis.
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Post by Christine on Jul 6, 2017 21:36:44 GMT -5
It's just a metaphor.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 21:39:10 GMT -5
Oh, so now you're implying Trump doesn't have a penis at all, but just a lousy "metaphor"? That's really mean, Christine.
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