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Post by robeiae on Aug 14, 2017 11:54:00 GMT -5
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Post by nighttimer on Aug 14, 2017 13:04:13 GMT -5
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Post by michaelw on Aug 14, 2017 21:34:14 GMT -5
Tiki wants no part of these assholes: I never stopped to think about it until now, but it would sort of suck to manufacture a product intended for fun backyard barbecues and have a bunch of violent white nationalist creepheads take it as their symbol. You know you've reached the Twilight Zone when Tiki Torches does a better job of distancing from fascism than the president of the country.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 22:14:18 GMT -5
Tiki Torch for president! Tiki 2017!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 9:40:19 GMT -5
So. Trump finally gives a clearly scripted-by-others statement on Charlottesville that would have been good if he'd made it a couple days earlier and if he weren't obviously forced into it. And then he follows up by tweeting an image of a train hitting a CNN reporter: and retweets this alt-right provocateur: Message of the delayed, reluctant condemnation, plus the retweets: "wink, wink, white nationalists. I don't really mean it. Keep it up -- I have your back."
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Post by nighttimer on Aug 15, 2017 13:12:10 GMT -5
Trump's second statement was worthless, useless and about as believable as a a porn skank's orgasm. He delivered it with robotic petulance, like a pissed-off schoolboy reading an apology written by his father to his teacher. The only thing you can believe about Trump is whatever rash, stupid, insensitive, boorish, racist, sexist, clueless, ignorant thing he belches out initially. All of the follow-up "clarifications" are ass-covering bullshit and this was no exception.You know it had to bug the hell out of Trump to make a second statement when he thought nothing was wrong with the first. It would take a degree of self-awareness he doesn't possess to realize how awful the sloppy kisses to backsides of the White supremacists really were. Trump thinks "leadership" means if he says it, that's it. No further explanation needed. While Trump took pains to name-check his predecessor as suffering the same problems he's enjoying, Barack Obama showed him yet again how a president should demonstrate sensitivity in a time of grievous tragedy. What a difference a president makes. How bad it suck for America that it doesn't have one?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 18:27:13 GMT -5
Just when you think it can't get any worse, Trump has a press conference. Full transcript here: uk.news.yahoo.com/donald-trump-charlottesville-press-conference-215600538.htmlsnippets: So. My takeaways: (1) The "alt-left" was just as much at fault as the Nazis in Charlottesville. In fact, more at fault because they didn't have a permit. (2) He hasn't yet found time in his busy golf schedule to call the family of the woman who was killed. (3) He equates George Washington (who helped found our country) with Confederate leaders (who tried to tear it in half). (4) Asked whether he'll visit the site of the atrocity, he pivots to the house and winery he owns there.
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Post by robeiae on Aug 15, 2017 18:38:39 GMT -5
(2) He hasn't yet found time in his busy golf schedule to call the family of the woman who was killed. I can't see where Trump has done much right in his response to these events, from his wishy-washy first response to his stupidity in trying to parcel out responsibility to both sides. That said, the above is unfair, imo. It's nice when Presidents reach out to people who suffer losses, but it's ridiculous to suppose that they owe the family of every victim a phone call. He offered condolences to her and to the family of the officers killed, which is what he should have done, to be sure.
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Post by mikey on Aug 15, 2017 18:41:01 GMT -5
I see nothing wrong with bringing Antifa's actions into the conversation. I would like to also know what the heck was going on with the cops in Charlottesville.Or more to the point,WTH with the bosses of the cops.
There's much more to this story than bleh Trump.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 18:50:47 GMT -5
(2) He hasn't yet found time in his busy golf schedule to call the family of the woman who was killed. I can't see where Trump has done much right in his response to these events, from his wishy-washy first response to his stupidity in trying to parcel out responsibility to both sides. That said, the above is unfair, imo. It's nice when Presidents reach out to people who suffer losses, but it's ridiculous to suppose that they owe the family of every victim a phone call. He offered condolences to her and to the family of the officers killed, which is what he should have done, to be sure. I believe when a person dies (and it's only one person) in a horrific national incident, it is pretty customary for the president to reach out to the family. It is not like this is Katrina or 9/11 with thousands of victims. One woman died. She was plowed down deliberately by an alt-right neo-Nazi at a white nationalist rally. A rally for which the president is catching a lot of much-deserved flak not only because of his utterly inadequate response but because pretty much everyone knows that white nationalists are rabid Trump supporters. And he's been on vacation, fucking golfing every day. He should have reached out. Period. And Mikey, I don't even have words to say how much I disagree with your comment.
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Post by Christine on Aug 15, 2017 20:06:18 GMT -5
(2) He hasn't yet found time in his busy golf schedule to call the family of the woman who was killed. I can't see where Trump has done much right in his response to these events, from his wishy-washy first response to his stupidity in trying to parcel out responsibility to both sides. That said, the above is unfair, imo. It's nice when Presidents reach out to people who suffer losses, but it's ridiculous to suppose that they owe the family of every victim a phone call. He offered condolences to her and to the family of the officers killed, which is what he should have done, to be sure. I don't disagree, not because it's simply nice when the President reaches out to people who suffer losses as a direct result of a major issue in our country (that's not nice; it's an imperative, imo), but because the family most likely wouldn't appreciate it, so a public offering was probably best. If he did call/visit, they might make nice, but do they really want him to? I sure as hell wouldn't, but maybe that's just me. ETA: and of course, Trump doesn't seem too keen on visits that don't involve people applauding and chanting his name, so.... But this: JESUS FUCKING CHRIST. I don't even think that's a pivot. I think it's pure, unadulterated Trump, the narcissist-in-chief. That right there is our President, off the cuff; that's who he is, the long and short of it. Re: the violence on both sides -- there was voluntarily violent interaction from both sides from the footage of fighting I saw. In those what I believe were basically "pockets" of skirmishes, the people involved wanted to fight each other. Ultimately, it would have been a wash, no great harm, imo, but then a fucking Nazi had to run his car into a group of peaceful people and that is why it's not simply both sides regarding the violence.
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Post by mikey on Aug 15, 2017 20:38:55 GMT -5
Re: the violence on both sides -- there was voluntarily violent interaction from both "sides" from the footage of fighting I saw. In those what I believe were basically "pockets" of skirmishes, the people involved wanted to fight each other. Ultimately, it would have been a wash, no great harm, imo, but then a fucking Nazi had to run his car into a group of peaceful people and that is why it's not "both sides" regarding the violence. I tend to agree with most of what you said Christine, with the exception of your conclusion. The pockets of skirmishes you refer to, escalated through out the day, (actually escalating for the last 8-9 months or so.) with both sides getting angrier and angrier until a fucking Nazi lost his shit and killed and hurt people with his car. Not many people are saints, especially in crowds. Expecting everyone in a crowed to be sensible is in my opinion unrealistic. I'm sure these thoughts are not unique to me. An antifa (I assume) member was killed at this protest, who and how many will be killed at the next one? The one after that? At what point will the cops be doing the killing to regain order? I find these questions very troubling.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 20:39:17 GMT -5
It would never have been a wash. Allow a couple of unsuccessful conservative presidential candidates to explain why: And NO NO NO FUCKING NO you do not go saying "oh, Antifa is sometimes violent too so both sides do it" in the wake of this. Even before the asshole with the car, you had a group of fucking Nazis marching for white supremacy. WTF. I'd like to punch one of them myself. We fought a goddamn war over this 70 odd years ago, remember?
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Post by nighttimer on Aug 15, 2017 20:42:20 GMT -5
(2) He hasn't yet found time in his busy golf schedule to call the family of the woman who was killed. I can't see where Trump has done much right in his response to these events, from his wishy-washy first response to his stupidity in trying to parcel out responsibility to both sides. That said, the above is unfair, imo. It's nice when Presidents reach out to people who suffer losses, but it's ridiculous to suppose that they owe the family of every victim a phone call. He offered condolences to her and to the family of the officers killed, which is what he should have done, to be sure. There is nothing "unfair" about Cassandra's observation because it has the advantage of being true. Nearly one out of every three days, Trump visits a Trump-owned property. One. Out. Of. Every. Three. Days.Personally, I have no problem with Trump spending his off days (or days he decides to take off) golfing. The more time he wastes golfing means less time for saber-rattling with North Korea, re-tweeting fake news from Alt-Right bigots, chatting it up with his BFF Vlad "The Hunk" Putin, or firing staff and getting nothing done in Congress. Any time Trump has a golf club in his clammy little mitt is time not spent grabbing va-jay-jays. I see nothing wrong with bringing Antifa's actions into the conversation. I would like to also know what the heck was going on with the cops in Charlottesville.Or more to the point,WTH with the bosses of the cops. There's much more to this story than bleh Trump. Yeah, but we'll never know any of it from your lame one-liners. Are you familiar with the term, "false equivalency?" How many of the anti-fascists gunned their engines and plowed into a crowd of White Supremacists, Mikey? If you see nothing wrong with the b.s. Trump and his racist base are peddling, don't worry about what the heck is going on with the Charlottesville cops. Worry about what's wrong with anyone who thinks this is a case of "you shoot my dog, I kill your cat." I can't see where Trump has done much right in his response to these events, from his wishy-washy first response to his stupidity in trying to parcel out responsibility to both sides. That said, the above is unfair, imo. It's nice when Presidents reach out to people who suffer losses, but it's ridiculous to suppose that they owe the family of every victim a phone call. He offered condolences to her and to the family of the officers killed, which is what he should have done, to be sure. I believe when a person dies (and it's only one person) in a horrific national incident, it is pretty customary for the president to reach out to the family. It is not like this is Katrina or 9/11 with thousands of victims. One woman died. She was plowed down deliberately by an alt-right neo-Nazi at a white nationalist rally. A rally for which the president is catching a lot of much-deserved flak not only because of his utterly inadequate response but because pretty much everyone knows that white nationalists are rabid Trump supporters. And he's been on vacation, fucking golfing every day. He should have reached out. Period. And Mikey, I don't even have words to say how much I disagree with your comment. Oh, I do. I got words. Lots of words. None of which need to be repeated here. Speaking of words, I do wonder what happened to the Social Injustice Warriors of The Colline Gate who were so hot and bothered about snarky IT guy losing his job for talking smack about his employer and how "unfair" he was being treated by the mean ol' corporation because he didn't have much use for diversity. That story has been pushed deep in the bowels of the news hole because hardcore racists, the kind that don't couch their hate and rage behind pretty words and education, have oozed out of the shadows and into the light of day attacking, beating and killing those who oppose them. Suddenly the defenders of freedom and the neo-liberals/conservatives got nothing to say. I get it. Their fantasy football drafts are coming up and they're trying to prep for that. Priorities.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 20:48:05 GMT -5
It is incredibly sad that in 2017 we need to assert that Nazis are really bad.
Even sadder that our president doesn't want to do it.
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