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Post by Optimus on Sept 17, 2017 16:11:58 GMT -5
So, I recently read this CBC article about an investigation into Canadians with fake degrees.Back in my corporate days, I used to have an HR-type operations job where I did a lot of hiring, firing, training, etc. and I've seen a lot of resume embellishment (i.e., bullshittery). So, given that LinkedIn is a thing now and there are lots of people on it, I realized how easy it is for people to bullshit their online resumes. But, that also made me realise how easy it is nowadays to check that kind of stuff. So, I did a LinkedIn search for "Almeda University," checking the 1st and 2nd boxes in my search terms (to search just my friends and friends of friends). Almeda is the main totally fake school / diploma mill mentioned in the story. I was relieved to see that nobody from my contacts list popped up but I did find some in some of my friends' lists. One guy even lists that he was on the debate team for Almeda. So, not only does he claim to have a degree from a school that doesn't exist, he was also on their non-existent debate team? Quelle impressionnant! Anyway, the story is what got me thinking about this. Pretty interesting and I'll link to the video story below, which is worth a watch (and probably easier than slogging through the longer article). If you're on LinkedIn, you should do a search. Find out how many liars you or your friends know. |
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Post by robeiae on Sept 19, 2017 7:23:16 GMT -5
Okay, that's really funny (the Almeda debate team guy).
As to resume bullshittery, here's a question: isn't some level of such taken as pretty much a given? How many people do a straight forward resume with no bullshittery, no embellishments these days, I wonder. I bet it's a small number.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 7:33:44 GMT -5
Okay, that's really funny (the Almeda debate team guy). As to resume bullshittery, here's a question: isn't some level of such taken as pretty much a given? How many people do a straight forward resume with no bullshittery, no embellishments these days, I wonder. I bet it's a small number. I do. I may even underplay some experience a bit because I have an old-fashioned notion about keeping my resume on one page and only including stuff I feel I'd want to babble on about at great length in an interview. |
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Post by robeiae on Sept 19, 2017 7:38:13 GMT -5
So that's one. And there's me. That's two.
See? Small number....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 11:55:00 GMT -5
I'd say resume bullshittery is really common but not a given. In my experience, it is still the kiss of death if the interviewer discovers it.
In another thread, I mention bullshittery about foreign language fluency. I have known young lawyers with great credentials that would otherwise land them the job who blew it by exaggerating their language expertise -- e.g., they have some knowledge of Spanish, but claim a fluency they don't possess. Mind you, Spanish isn't required for the job. But if the interviewer speaks to you in Spanish, and it turns out you fibbed about your abilities you won't get the job. It's not because you're not fluent -- it's because you bullshitted.
My advice to everyone is not to bullshit. Make the most you legitimately can of the experience and credentials you genuinely have. Spin* is OK, but fibbing and exaggerating is really not, at least in the worlds I've moved in.
ETA:
By "spin", I mean wording your experience in a way that makes the most of it you can but that is not lying nor could it be construed as bullshitting -- it needs to hold up if you are close-questioned about it or if they ask your references about it.
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Post by Optimus on Sept 19, 2017 20:05:23 GMT -5
In my HR-related days, I saw a quite a bit of resume embellishment. It's to be expected. We all like to puff up the details a bit to make our star shine a bit brighter.
But, I think that's a far cry from dropping $1000 on a fake degree from a fake school that you know you didn't actually attend, and then using that to build your career (on a lie).
Some of these people work in medical/mental healthcare. Some are engineers, etc. Hiring someone who said they "created and lead high-performing teams which generated a 5% quarterly boost in revenue" and later finding out that they were really just the lunch manager at a McDonalds on the day they brought the McRib back isn't a big deal.
But it's much worse when you hire someone who claims they have a PhD in clinical psychology, or a bachelors in engineering, and later find out after a depressed person kills herself or a bridge collapses due to shitty design that the person responsible has a fake degree from a fake school.
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Post by michaelw on Sept 19, 2017 20:58:16 GMT -5
I was on the debate team at Prager University.
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Post by Optimus on Sept 19, 2017 21:04:08 GMT -5
Haha, does that mean that you just yell at their YouTube vids?
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Post by Amadan on Sept 20, 2017 10:27:20 GMT -5
Yeah, most software people will list among the technical skills they have every programming language or operating system that they've so much as cracked a book about. That is kind of expected (and it's also expected that if you actually get a job working with some obscure language you haven't used since your undergraduate final project, you'll get up to speed in a hurry). That's quite different than claiming a degree you don't have, or from a fake school.
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Post by Vince524 on Sept 20, 2017 10:58:39 GMT -5
I have experience and considered an expert in an international brand & organization that has lasted for over four decades, I'm an expert in the inner workings of the organization and have contributedto the success for nearly 40 years.
In other words, I've been a KISS fan since I was 8 (1978) and have bought a lot of their crap, including an album released in Europe. I can name each member, past and present, including musicians who were un-credited on their albums, the song writers and I'm a treasure trove on useless KISS trivia. Plus I've had some interaction with Bruce Kulick on Facebook.
How's that?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2017 11:20:44 GMT -5
Yeah, most software people will list among the technical skills they have every programming language or operating system that they've so much as cracked a book about. That is kind of expected (and it's also expected that if you actually get a job working with some obscure language you haven't used since your undergraduate final project, you'll get up to speed in a hurry). That's quite different than claiming a degree you don't have, or from a fake school. Yes, I think that's different, and it's all about how you spin it. I have successfully handled cases involving many diverse areas of law, including ERISA and the Deceptive Trade Practices Act. However, my cases involving both of those areas of the law were years ago and I'd absolutely need to ramp up again if I took on a new case involving them. However, certainly I mention them on my resume (and indeed one of my points of pride as a lawyer is my ability to very quickly ramp up on new areas of the law and mountains of new facts). I don't say I'm an expert in the latest on ERiSA law. I cite my successful handling of a case in that area, which is true and verifiable. I think that's pretty standard, and it's not fibbing. No one is going to penalize me in an interview for listing the case on a resume, or admitting in the interview that I'm rusty on it unless I portrayed myself as an up-to-the minute expert on it, in which case I'd damn well better be one. The foreign language thing is different, I think -- I don't recommend that anyone list a language they are less than proficient in at that moment. I cringe whenever I see someone say they have a "working knowledge" of a language. Generally that means they're about as proficient as I am in Spanish -- they can make out the meaning of signs in Spanish and basic menu items, communicate simple things, though not always very grammatically, etc. (I took four years of high school Spanish, btw, and grew up with Spanish-speaking grandparents. I once had more Spanish. But you lose languages if you don't use them. And certainly I was never, ever good enough to practice law in Spanish.) But face them or me with someone speaking rapid Spanish or ask them to adequately translate a contract in Spanish, and they are pretty useless. They'd need a full-on language course to make the language of any real use in a job.. Putting "working knowledge" of Spanish makes it very likely that someone will quiz you during the interview in Spanish and reveal your bullshit. (Which takes the focus off your real skills and makes the interviewer question whether you're bullshitting about them, too.). |
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