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Post by Vince524 on Oct 2, 2017 12:07:13 GMT -5
In most of the Europe ones, the shooter usually has a tie and is spouting stuff consistent with ISIS. No evidence of that here. His brother has spoken. I don't think, based on that, that anyone knows the 'why' yet. Not sure in the long run if it matters. Maybe he fell on hard times and took comfort in some extremist group we don't have on the radar yet? Or he hated Country Music or the sort of person he thought would go to Country Fest? Or he just developed a brain tumor? No idea, and knowing won't bring back the dead or erase the horror for the survivors. I'm trying not to think about it at work, because it's makes me want to cry.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 12:16:03 GMT -5
Apparently he was in fact a fan of country music.
He had not only no ties to extremist groups, but also no known political or religious enthusiasms in particular. And as far as his family knew, he was comfortable financially.
He's 64, white, a country music fan, and lived in rural areas. The first stereotype many would jump to is that he's a far right wing nut. But then you look at his target (obviously planned) -- a country music festival, likely full of white people, many of them conservative. If anything, that would point to far left wing nut (though, obviously, it's not just white conservative people who listen to country music. Why not go for a rally, if that's your goal?).
Nothing points to ISIS except ISIS, but they'd claim responsibility for a hurricane, so you can ignore that. The guy certainly doesn't fit the profile of an ISIS convert, not in any way.
He didn't suddenly snap out of the blue, since this attack was clearly planned.
Vince's tumor explanation makes more sense to me than anything else so far.
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Post by robeiae on Oct 2, 2017 12:38:27 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 13:49:24 GMT -5
Pathetic that trolls push out hoaxes on a tragedy like this. Unfortunately, a lot of perfectly well-meaning people then retweet them as fact, thus perpetuating them. Depending on your news feed, you might see the same hoax again and again, while other people with different feeds just keep seeing a different one. And that further cements your belief in the hoax. I really think it's quite harmful the way newsfeeds, twitter, and facebook tend to perpetuate bubbles that reinforce your own beliefs.
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Post by Angie on Oct 2, 2017 15:07:48 GMT -5
Changed my thread title to reflect that it was definitely a single gunman.
And holy crap, the rumors that flew around. In the space of two minutes, I saw one commenter frothing about the absolute certain fact that it was a Muslim terrorist (and that there were at least 3 of them shooting from multiple locations around the area), and another commenter frothing that it was Antifa targeting the country music crowd (because they're ALL Republicans, donchaknow).
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Post by Don on Oct 2, 2017 15:34:29 GMT -5
www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/us/stephen-paddock-vegas-shooter.htmlIf there's no tumor in this man's brain and his manifesto doesn't show up in the next few days, I'm going to be very confused. Why would an otherwise perfectly normal person go ballistic and then off himself before being able to make his statement? I notice they're already trotting out the "lone wolf" moniker.
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Post by robeiae on Oct 2, 2017 15:35:16 GMT -5
I'm not grokking this insistence of labeling him a terrorist that I'm seeing play out on twitter. Maybe he is a terrorist. Maybe that's even likely. But the label is a function of intent, I think. If his motive wasn't terrorism, it doesn't make his actions somehow better, right?
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Post by nighttimer on Oct 2, 2017 15:59:04 GMT -5
I'm not grokking this insistence of labeling him a terrorist that I'm seeing play out on twitter. Maybe he is a terrorist. Maybe that's even likely. But the label is a function of intent, I think. If his motive wasn't terrorism, it doesn't make his actions somehow better, right? Someone places a bomb in a trash can in front of an abortion clinic. It goes off and one person is wounded by shrapnel. That's terrorism. Someone knocks out the glass of his room on the 32nd floor of a hotel, opens fire on a crowd of 22,000 people attending a concert killing 58 and wounding 400, but that's not terrorism? I don't follow the logic. Maybe that's not terrorism, but if it's not, it will do until a real act of terrorism shows up.
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Post by Amadan on Oct 2, 2017 16:00:52 GMT -5
www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/us/stephen-paddock-vegas-shooter.htmlIf there's no tumor in this man's brain and his manifesto doesn't show up in the next few days, I'm going to be very confused. Why would an otherwise perfectly normal person go ballistic and then off himself before being able to make his statement? I notice they're already trotting out the "lone wolf" moniker. It's starting to sound like one of those crazy high-concept Hollywood scenarios that we'll never actually know the answer to.
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Post by robeiae on Oct 2, 2017 16:18:44 GMT -5
I'm not grokking this insistence of labeling him a terrorist that I'm seeing play out on twitter. Maybe he is a terrorist. Maybe that's even likely. But the label is a function of intent, I think. If his motive wasn't terrorism, it doesn't make his actions somehow better, right? Someone places a bomb in a trash can in front of an abortion clinic. It goes off and one person is wounded by shrapnel. That's terrorism. Someone knocks out the glass of his room on the 32nd floor of a hotel, opens fire on a crowd of 22,000 people attending a concert killing 58 and wounding 400, but that's not terrorism? I don't follow the logic. Maybe that's not terrorism, but if it's not, it will do until a real act of terrorism shows up. www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2331Maybe his intent was to terrorize. It's probable that this was the case, imo. But we need to know something about that intent, I think. For the record, the apparent level of planning involved tends to support this (that it was terrorism), imo. But I think we can wait until some more info comes to light. The phony angst I'm seeing over the use of the term is disheartening to me. People care more about their own little shibboleths in this regard than they do about the actual event and the people who have suffered.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 16:21:50 GMT -5
I've got to run out for a bit, so link later, but I just heard the guy's dad was on the FBIs most wanted list in the '60s. The shooter's brother said that his kids didn't know him, and neither of the brothers has a prior history of violence, I understand. But I'm wondering, in all seriousness, whether there could be a genetic, biological thing going on -- some sort of predisposition towards violence.
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Post by nighttimer on Oct 2, 2017 16:38:54 GMT -5
I've got to run out for a bit, so link later, but I just heard the guy's dad was on the FBIs most wanted list in the '60s. The shooter's brother said that his kids didn't know him, and neither of the brothers has a prior history of violence, I understand. But I'm wondering, in all seriousness, whether there could be a genetic, biological thing going on -- some sort of predisposition towards violence. Predisposed towards violence? Is that really a thing? Being a cruel asshole certainly is as this vile woman demonstrates. As if these sort of rampages weren't awful enough, an unfortunate side-effect is how they bring out the absolute worst in humanity.
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Post by Vince524 on Oct 2, 2017 16:55:30 GMT -5
Yeah, there certainly can be a predisposition to violence. Temperament can be passed down even if you don't know the genetic person where it came from,but whether it's true in this case, it's impossible to know.
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Post by Vince524 on Oct 2, 2017 16:58:04 GMT -5
I've heard one guy died protecting his wife with his body.
Also a story of a older teacher who covered students with his, although thankfully, I believe he survived.
Shootings like these make us realize how evil mankind can be.
Stuff like that shows us how good we can be.
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Post by Amadan on Oct 2, 2017 17:41:44 GMT -5
My sister and nieces are okay. So far they know of at least two friends who were wounded.
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