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Post by Amadan on Dec 17, 2017 12:31:45 GMT -5
What is it about this particular moment in time that makes you think the apocalypse is finally upon us? I mean, you have been saying pretty much the same thing for a long time, about how the government is corrupt beyond redemption, all politicians are equally evil, and America is lost. So is that you really, really mean it this time about Pence being Nehemiah Scudder and we're now about to enter a dystopian nightmare?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 13:06:11 GMT -5
Great. Here's how Don felt in November: I voted business as usual, with a side order of things may improve. Not because of anything the political class does better, but because we may finally have a re-engaged left when it comes to foreign adventurism, personal liberties, and the war on drugs. They've been sound asleep the last eight years. Add in the eight new nullifications of the drug war this election (4 medical states, 4 personal consumption states) and new tech moving faster than FedGov can regulate it, and the future actually has some shiny edges around the storm clouds. I did not say anything against forum rules, as far as I can tell. I did not reference another forum. Most of us have known each other for quite a while; to pretend we don't is silly, imo. But of course, I defer to the mods. Your assertion was this (I've bolded the part I questioned as possibly coming from another forum -- and I did so, btw, because I could not recall Don "laughing" at "devastated" people on this forum, and was scratching my head over your reference to Don's "newfound angst"): I see a tremendous "particular reason," and I'm surprised you don't. Even with the gross economic stupidity of the Obama administration, it's horrid deportation record and continuation of the drug war, I, too, was lulled into thinking we were on an upward trajectory as a society. And I think we were to some extent, primarily because of that perception being wide-spread. Perception is reality sometimes. And SJW bullshit aside, progressives have a better reputation for tolerance of differing lifestyles that conservatives, But with these knuckle-draggers in office, any false facade of civility is gone. I've got a few in my near-immediate family I'd be glad to hook you up with, if you think they're just another version of SJWs, angry at the world but too meek and out of touch with reality to be a serious problem. Almost all these folks have real jobs and are highly functional outside the university setting. They also have guns, and know how to use 'em. And there's no chance they'll get diverted by passing around a paddle that gives them the opportunity to speak, or arguing over the appropriate gender pronouns. There was never, ever going to be an army of Christian Soldiers, marching as to war, behind Barack Obama. Behind the Disholy Trinity* of Sessions, Trump and Moore? I'm not so sure. I'm already hearing a lot of grumbling out of Alabama. *Now that Moore's failure to launch has removed him from actual power, they fill the roles nicely; Sessions as Father, Trump as Son, Moore as the Holy Ghost. Dude, you're missing my point. I recognized all of this way back in 2016. It's why I voted for Hillary. (As did many others, holding their noses, but sadly, it wasn't enough.) You don't have to explain how things have gotten worse; this has been the case in point since January 2017. What's surprising is that you apparently just now seem to be getting fed up with it, nevermind that you thought it was six of one, half a dozen of the other last November. I distinctly recall you laughing when Trump got elected--at everyone who was devastated. Forgive me if I don't feel a whole lot of solidarity with your newfound angst.How in your quote from November is Don "laughing...at everyone who was devastated"? How is his "angst" "newfound"? What Don was saying -- and for the record, I agree with him on this point -- is that for eight years under Obama the left largely slept as the federal government continued its incursions into "foreign adventurism, personal liberties, and the war on drugs". Pretty much what I heard all my lefty friends saying is that that was all hunky dory because they trusted Obama. Now that Trump is in office, they are upset about all that again, and Don -- having consistently been railing about this stuff all along -- welcomes that. There is nothing newfound about his angst. He has never liked Trump or thought Trump was good for the country. And I don't see him "laughing" at people who are "devastated." He's simply been against the expansion of executive power and the erosion of the bill of rights all along, and he's glad to have more people rising up. I disagree with Don on many points, but I'm wholeheartedly with him there. The relevant newfound angst here is on the part of the left. ETA: As far as your objection to my mod note goes, I told you to go ahead (with support) if you were referring to this forum. I only put the kibosh on your dragging in a dispute from another forum -- which is, you might recall, one of our rules.
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Post by Christine on Dec 17, 2017 19:26:22 GMT -5
What is it about this particular moment in time that makes you think the apocalypse is finally upon us? I mean, you have been saying pretty much the same thing for a long time, about how the government is corrupt beyond redemption, all politicians are equally evil, and America is lost. So is that you really, really mean it this time about Pence being Nehemiah Scudder and we're now about to enter a dystopian nightmare? Pretty much this. The conversation started out that Don had run out of tolerance or patience for people he encounters with religious or political beliefs he disagrees with, then came my response regarding similar individual people I encounter, then from Don it was breaking my leg/picking my pocket rhetoric (same as always) so I pointed out that this had always been Don's position and it seemed there was "no particular reason" for the sudden loss of courtesy. And then, Don turned it around like *I* was suggesting there was no particular reason to push back against the GOP knuckle draggers in office (who have been there for a long time and who many, many people have been pushing back against for a long time), that *I* needed to be told that Obama wasn't going to lead a Christian crusade, and (weirdly) that he could hook me up with some alt-right gun owners or something to prove to me.. something, I'm not sure what. I withdraw my reference to Don's sentiments from pre-TCG conversations. My point in referring back to it in the first place was not to reignite a debate (clearly, that debate is over) but to remind him of his apparent state of mind at the time--while everyone else was devastated, because they already knew what Don has apparently just recently become fed up with. The post I quoted from TCG is sufficient to make the general point, and I'll make sure I keep it to TCG references in the future.
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Post by robeiae on Dec 18, 2017 8:15:25 GMT -5
I wasn't devastated and I'm still not. Trump is proving to be perhaps a little worse than I imagined, but the world still isn't ending, everyone's not folding up their tents and going home. Moore lost, Trump or no Trump. Don has a fair point about facades, though, at least imo. But it may be that some clarity was needed in this regard in order to force some people to engage in a little introspection. It's not a given this will happen, of course, but one has to have a little faith... Parable time:
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 19:54:42 GMT -5
Sassy continues to make me laugh, with a bit of help from Bill Kristol...
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Post by Vince524 on Dec 22, 2017 17:39:05 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 17:47:10 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean, why even pretend to be anything but despicably villainous in 2017?
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