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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 11:22:09 GMT -5
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Post by mikey on Dec 12, 2017 11:59:30 GMT -5
So now we are to believe the lying Russian propaganda?
From a Russians mouth to America's ear
To clear up my sarcasm, I don't believe for a second that Russian propaganda is any less sterile than America"s own propaganda. Only believe half of what you see, and non of what you hear. Hmm, sounds like a song.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 13:48:28 GMT -5
What is the "propaganda" here? The Kremlin's statement that they take Trump at his word when he tweets? Words have meaning, and I'm unclear on how you think that particular word applies here. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda To whom is this "propaganda" directed? What ideas, information, or rumors is it deliberately spreading? Are they true or false? What cause is it intended to assist or injure? No question that the Kremlin loves to issue propaganda and has directed plenty of it at the United States. But in this instance, I'm hard-pressed to see the application of the term. Are you implying that the Kremlin doesn't actually believe Trump's tweets? By saying they do, are they trying to injure Trump? Trump's political opponents? America in general? And how is this particular statement geared to accomplish that, exactly? ETA: Also, in the event you are implying that the Russians could not possibly take Trump's tweets seriously, what do you, as a Trump supporter, think of your president issuing multiple screeds every day that no one could take seriously? What do you think about the fact that millions of his followers clearly DO take his tweets seriously, demanding, e.g., that the military obey his tweeted command to discharge transgender troops?
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Post by mikey on Dec 12, 2017 15:03:43 GMT -5
What is the "propaganda" here? The Kremlin's statement that they take Trump at his word when he tweets? Words have meaning, and I'm unclear on how you think that particular word applies here. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda To whom is this "propaganda" directed? Cass, you were the one spreading this propaganda (see no. 2 of the definition you posted) so you need to answer that question. Again, someone started this thread for a reason. I assume it was to make someone or some group look good, or for someone or some group to look bad. (see no. 3 in the posted definition) As Iv'e strongly implied in the past, I'm no President Trump supporter, I'm an anti shit talking dog pile jumping person. As far as President Trumps "screeds", I see it as the same shit, different day. I don't get too excited about any of it. I may change my view of that if we ever find a way to produce candidate who will work on behalf of the people who can't afford to "donate cash" to the candidates. I know, my view will stay the same forever. sad
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 15:06:36 GMT -5
My posting a news article containing a quote from the Kremlin is "spreading propaganda"?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 15:17:18 GMT -5
So tell me. Is posting any news article or opinion that relates to politics "spreading propaganda," in your book?
Or is it just when you perceive it to reflect negatively in some way on Trump?
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Post by mikey on Dec 12, 2017 15:53:44 GMT -5
So tell me. Is posting any news article or opinion that relates to politics "spreading propaganda," in your book? Or is it just when you perceive it to reflect negatively in some way on Trump? No, not at all. I was responding to the definition that you posted, along with questions you posted. It just seems odd to me that after 9 - 10- 11 or more months of seeing evil colluding Russians in the news every day, to all of a sudden see a piece about a "truthful Russian agent". So the question is, which reporting is "news" and which is "propaganda"? Is there a way to tell the difference?
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Post by Amadan on Dec 12, 2017 16:11:31 GMT -5
No, not at all. I was responding to the definition that you posted, along with questions you posted. It just seems odd to me that after 9 - 10- 11 or more months of seeing evil colluding Russians in the news every day, to all of a sudden see a piece about a "truthful Russian agent". So the question is, which reporting is "news" and which is "propaganda"? Is there a way to tell the difference? So, obviously we should take anything Russian government officials say with a grain of salt. And I'm sure they understand as well as we do that when Trump tweets something, it might be what he really thinks, but it doesn't actually mean that whatever he says he wants to do is actually going to happen, or be endorsed by Congress, or that he won't change his mind the next day. I think the point here was not "OMG Russians are basing their foreign policy on Trump's tweets, says Russian agent!" It's "Trump's tweets are not just embarrassing, they really are impacting foreign policy, in that foreign leaders pay attention to them and take them with some degree of seriousness."
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 16:15:07 GMT -5
I think the point here was not "OMG Russians are basing their foreign policy on Trump's tweets, says Russian agent!" It's "Trump's tweets are not just embarrassing, they really are impacting foreign policy, in that foreign leaders pay attention to them and take them with some degree of seriousness." Precisely. ETA: I have heard more than one Trump supporter pooh-pooh his embarrassing tweets as unimportant. They aren't. Indeed, the White House too has said that it considers Trump's tweets to be official statements. www.cnn.com/2017/06/06/politics/trump-tweets-official-statements/index.htmlAnyone who still supports Trump should follow his twitter account and pay some attention to his "official statements." I understand why the loony-tune fringe still cheers him, but I have difficulty understanding how any grown-up, responsible adult with any sort of integrity still does so.
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Post by michaelw on Dec 12, 2017 17:39:46 GMT -5
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Post by mikey on Dec 12, 2017 18:01:53 GMT -5
If we allow that Trumps tweets are in fact "official statements", then what does that mean? and how much weight do these statements carry? For example is CNN officially "fake news?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 18:14:39 GMT -5
I have to admit I'm wondering if you're trolling here.
No, the fact that they are official statements does not mean that their content is accurate.
It does means that however ill-considered, false, and idiotic they are, they cannot be shrugged aside as mere personal meanderings or meaningless blather, but rather are official pronouncements of the head of the executive branch of our government.
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Post by prozyan on Dec 12, 2017 18:24:13 GMT -5
Which is terrible considering Trump doesn't write all the tweets himself.
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Post by mikey on Dec 12, 2017 19:12:17 GMT -5
I have to admit I'm wondering if you're trolling here. No, the fact that they are official statements does not mean that their content is accurate. It does means that however ill-considered, false, and idiotic they are, they cannot be shrugged aside as mere personal meanderings or meaningless blather, but rather are official pronouncements of the head of the executive branch of our government. Why would a different view of something other than you're own = potential "trolling?" It seems to me that that's the type of attitude that got Trump elected in the first place. The way I understand things, there are two other branches of government who holds equal weight. The immigration issue is an example of the judicial attempting to say not so fast. So that's why I'm wondering why the world cannot shrug aside the " personal meanderings or meaningless blather"? What's going to happen if Trumps tweets are not taken seriously? I really don't think any of our lives will be changed regardless of Trumps tweets. I mean other than emotionally. but that part of things, each of us are in charge of our own.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 19:25:51 GMT -5
I have to admit I'm wondering if you're trolling here. No, the fact that they are official statements does not mean that their content is accurate. It does means that however ill-considered, false, and idiotic they are, they cannot be shrugged aside as mere personal meanderings or meaningless blather, but rather are official pronouncements of the head of the executive branch of our government. Why would a different view of something other than you're own = potential "trolling?" It seems to me that that's the type of attitude that got Trump elected in the first place. The way I understand things, there are two other branches of government who holds equal weight. The immigration issue is an example of the judicial attempting to say not so fast. So that's why I'm wondering why the world cannot shrug aside the " personal meanderings or meaningless blather"? What's going to happen if Trumps tweets are not taken seriously? I really don't think any of our lives will be changed regardless of Trumps tweets. I mean other than emotionally. but that part of things, each of us are in charge of our own. Sooooo... Your view here is that it just doesn't matter if the POTUS is constantly spewing stupid shit, including threats and lies and insults and false promises, even if other nations take his pronouncements seriously?
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