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Post by Angie on Jan 12, 2018 12:16:17 GMT -5
Surprised I'm the first one on this. Of course, he's denying it this morning, but since every other word that comes out of his mouth is a lie or contrary to the thing that came out of his mouth right before it, I'm not inclined to believe him. |
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Post by celawson on Jan 12, 2018 12:30:15 GMT -5
I'm going to add this Twitter feed from Jake Tapper of CNN who is trying to get an accurate report of what went down. CLick on it and scroll down to read his info.
The Haiti comment seems understandable. The "s***hole" comment...sigh.
I was actually going to post a new thread with link to a C-Span video of the meeting Trump called between Dems and Repubs in Congress as a sort of pre-meeting for the DACA issue. I was pretty impressed at how Trump ran that meeting, and it was very clear he's not unintelligent nor suffering from dementia, by how he ran that meeting. And it showed that he does approach some things in a new way from career politicians. I particularly liked when he told Congress to let him take heat, that he doesn't mind and actually likes heat, because he isn't a career politician and it is more important to get things accomplished than worry about heat. I was actually excited that something good would be accomplished in a bipartisan way. (It also struck me that in that meeting, those congress people seemed like children who needed hand-holding to get DACA legislation accomplished. What the heck why can't they act like adults and get things done?) Maybe I still will start a thread about that. It was fascinating to watch.
Then this happens. I don't think Trump is dumb about everything. I think he has intelligence, and I think he has street smarts and cunning and a good gut instinct. But he is dumb about these sorts of outbursts. I do think he simply has no filter. He seriously keeps shooting himself in the foot just when it appears he's done things he can legitimately crow about. It's so frustrating.
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Post by robeiae on Jan 12, 2018 15:06:12 GMT -5
It's just so stupid, to say something like that, especially when it might get out. Especially since the "shithole countries" he seemed to be talking about were all of those in Africa, which he then directly compared to Norway.
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Post by nighttimer on Jan 12, 2018 15:11:44 GMT -5
I'm going to add this Twitter feed from Jake Tapper of CNN who is trying to get an accurate report of what went down. CLick on it and scroll down to read his info. The Haiti comment seems understandable. The "s***hole" comment...sigh. I was actually going to post a new thread with link to a C-Span video of the meeting Trump called between Dems and Repubs in Congress as a sort of pre-meeting for the DACA issue. I was pretty impressed at how Trump ran that meeting, and it was very clear he's not unintelligent nor suffering from dementia, by how he ran that meeting. And it showed that he does approach some things in a new way from career politicians. I particularly liked when he told Congress to let him take heat, that he doesn't mind and actually likes heat, because he isn't a career politician and it is more important to get things accomplished than worry about heat. I was actually excited that something good would be accomplished in a bipartisan way. (It also struck me that in that meeting, those congress people seemed like children who needed hand-holding to get DACA legislation accomplished. What the heck why can't they act like adults and get things done?) Maybe I still will start a thread about that. It was fascinating to watch. Then this happens. I don't think Trump is dumb about everything. I think he has intelligence, and I think he has street smarts and cunning and a good gut instinct. But he is dumb about these sorts of outbursts. I do think he simply has no filter. He seriously keeps shooting himself in the foot just when it appears he's done things he can legitimately crow about. It's so frustrating. Do you really think a man who calls Haiti and African countries "shitholes" is "frustrating?" Do you really think a man who says the U.S. needs more immigrants from Norway is "frustrating?" Do you really think the ends justifies the means even if the means are suffused in rancid bigotry and racial prejudice? Do you really not see there is no intelligence, zero street smarts, a lack of cunning and a faulty gut instinct when a politician constantly and continues to denigrate whole countries in the most vile and crude language possible? Do you really not think Donald Trump is a racist? |
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Post by Amadan on Jan 12, 2018 15:29:49 GMT -5
Without getting into whether or not Trump is suffering from dementia, I'll point out that someone who is in mental decline doesn't show it 100% of the time. The fact that sometimes he can appear sharp doesn't mean his faculties aren't waning.
I also remain of the opinion that despising "career politicians' is a peculiar strain of anti-intellectualism and anti-professionalism. Not being a career politician is one reason why half the time, Trump does things without a clue about the implications or repercussions. I know you think him stomping around Washington like a bull in a china shop is a good thing, but I don't think history will vindicate your faith in him. And you think things like his "shithole" and "grab 'em by the pussy" comments are just occasionally unfortunate aberrations, and not a core part of his character.
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Post by prozyan on Jan 12, 2018 16:07:50 GMT -5
Maybe Trump made a deal with the Night Mother ala King Taravangian.....
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Post by Optimus on Jan 12, 2018 17:13:53 GMT -5
I find it utterly unsurprising that his disparaging comments were about countries with majority black/brown citizens and his complimentary comments were about a country with majority caucasian/european citizens.
He is a planet-wide embarrassment.
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Post by celawson on Jan 12, 2018 18:19:40 GMT -5
On my phone so not able to type much, but to NT - I wish we had video of the meeting. I don't think anyone reporting this knows exactly what was said and how it was said. I think the Tapper explanation about Haiti makes sense.
Tom Cotton and another senator who were present in the meeting (can't remember name and on my phone damn it) have issued a statement that they don't recall the POTUS saying those things. So yeah this looks bad but I still don't know what the truth is, and I have to be skeptical of any news reports about Trump.
And beyond this Trump stuff is the fact that Congress still can't get it together enough to do something about DACA. I suspect Durbin's and the Dem's inability to compromise on this issue got DT riled up. But I still want to know exactly what was said and the context before calling him racist.
Amadan - the part about Trump taking heat - I don't know if you saw the meeting but it was not said with contempt for career politicians. It was said to help facilitate coming to an agreement and it was said in a friendly "let me take the blame" sort of way.
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Post by nighttimer on Jan 12, 2018 19:06:12 GMT -5
On my phone so not able to type much, but to NT - I wish we had video of the meeting. I don't think anyone reporting this knows exactly what was said and how it was said. I think the Tapper explanation about Haiti makes sense. So the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, TIME, Newsweek and even fucking Fox News are lying their collectives asses off and only Trump is telling the truth? Here's what I think. I think asked you five simple questions. You answered NONE of them. Whether you're on your phone or not, you seem to have no problem waving away Trump's latest act of hatefulness and blowing it off. A video would mean nothing. Here's something else I know. When Trump said he could shoot someone and not lose any votes, he knew his base. They NEVER know "exactly what was said" and even when they DO they rationalize, they blow it off and they deny, deny, deny. Trump supporters are the new Flat-Earthers. ANY news report or any news report from any news source that doesn't kiss Trump's flabby, fat ass? Sticking your head in the sand and plugging your fingers in the ears is not what someone who even wants the truth does. Saying you can't believe it if wasn't recorded is a crap defense, celawson. You can pretend Trump didn't say "grab 'em by the pussy" but he said it. You can pretend Trump meant something entirely different when he said there were very fine people among the White supremacists in Charlottesville and you can parse two chickenshit GOP senators who didn't DENY what Trump said, they just don't REMEMBER him saying it, and it's still gonna be bullshit going down one hole and bullshit when it comes out of the other. Cotton didn't say Trump didn't say what he said. Neither did Perdue. Or Goodlatte. Or Graham. They just gave a non-denial denial. Waaaaal...he might have said it. I wasn't really listening....Dick Durbin did so don't believe the b.s. hype. Trump lies. He lies even when there's no reason to or any benefit to it. He lies because he likes lying. He's good at it and he's gotten so good at it because his supporters and admirers enable the lying. That's not skepticism. That's solipsism. If you can't trust any news reports coming with a leftward perspective, how about one coming from the Right?Not simply determined to make it worse, but hell-bent to make it worse. Trump gets riled up if his toast isn't buttered from end-to-end. What you suspect is a deflection and a dodge. A deal on DACA was why Senator Durbin was there and he thought he had one which is why Lindsay Graham was there with him only to find immigration hardliners, Senators Tom Cotton and David Perdue, and Congressman Bob Goodlatte waiting for him as well as Trump---the same lying asshole who had said two days earlier with the TV cameras rolling he was eager to sign any deal on DACA. Durbin and Graham walked into the White House with a deal they believe Trump would sign. Turns out he had changed his tiny little mind yet again and reached into the Oval Office Shithole and threw shit all over the Durbin/Graham deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. You weren't there. You didn't see the video or if you did the sound wasn't on. If it wasn't covered on "Fox & Friends" it's all Fake News, right? Your president is a racist. Not "dumb" or "stupid." Racist. Racist as in does not like Blacks or Latinos or Muslims. Trump is a racist and I can prove it with his own words and deeds. You can try and prove he's not. |
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Post by Angie on Jan 12, 2018 19:08:17 GMT -5
And beyond this Trump stuff is the fact that Congress still can't get it together enough to do something about DACA. I suspect Durbin's and the Dem's inability to compromise on this issue got DT riled up. But I still want to know exactly what was said and the context before calling him racist. I don't need this particular comment to be investigated to death in order to call him a racist. I just need his history of making racist remarks. Also, how telling is it that no one can quite decide whether or not this is true? How telling is it that this is something that is absolutely believable coming from this president? |
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Post by michaelw on Jan 12, 2018 19:35:41 GMT -5
Also, how telling is it that no one can quite decide whether or not this is true? It seems pretty likely to be true, IMO. The problem is Trump has zero credibility, because he has a history not just with dishonesty in general, but specifically w/ saying things and then denying he ever said them. "He knew what he was getting into." Remember that one? It had three different people corroborating the story (four if you count John Kelly). "The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive." Trump denied that one too, even though it's posted on Twitter where everyone can see it. If anyone thinks we should give him the benefit of the doubt with these things, I'd love to know why. |
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Post by robeiae on Jan 12, 2018 19:48:49 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't doubt he said this, at all. Or at least something very, very similar (it would amount to a distinction without a difference). I think he probably said it in frustration over the TPS (temporary protected status) issue, but that just demonstrates yet again--imo--how particularly unsuited Trump is for the job of President.
And the pushback on this from the Trumpers on twitter is hi-larious.
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Post by Optimus on Jan 13, 2018 0:15:30 GMT -5
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Post by michaelw on Jan 13, 2018 3:43:31 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Jan 13, 2018 9:03:43 GMT -5
I think Haiti shares some features with the Palestinian territories (and other regions, to be sure). Both represent cause celebres that can be easily accessed by major players for good press, both rely far too much on donations of one sort of another, and both can also be used to spark outrage, when necessary. Because of all this, there is precious little real progress.
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