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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 11:23:06 GMT -5
Just saw this myself, NT, and was going to post it. Thank you. A couple of parents here have wrung their hands about their kids doing school programs overseas. I have to tell you -- I think European parents should be far, far more worried about sending their kids to do programs in the United States.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 24, 2019 17:50:43 GMT -5
The shooting has stopped. The dying has not.
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Post by robeiae on Mar 24, 2019 18:00:49 GMT -5
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Post by nighttimer on May 23, 2019 7:39:42 GMT -5
Surprisingly, I'm not surprised that this punk-ass hustler is a bit of a bigot. As fun as it is to see this opportunistic little shit hoisted on his own petard, I am personally sick and tired of these bullshit "apologies." Kyle Kashuv isn't a little bit sorry for what he said. He's sorry he got caught. Fuck you and your apology, KK. You're only one "K" short of what you're really all about.
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Post by nighttimer on Jun 4, 2019 17:42:43 GMT -5
One could of course argue that someone like a security guard/police officer has an express duty to not run the other way, and I think that's fair. But the shit this one guy--Petersen--is catching is total bullshit, imo. He's not to blame for what happened. It's not his fault. And to be fair, the person who started this particular shit storm is the Broward County sheriff, one Scott Israel, who immediately tossed Petersen under the bus to--imo--cover up his department's very clear past failures. Israel is a Dem (unsurprising in Broward County) and is catching heat from Repubs in Florida while Dems protect him. Imo, this is a huge "teachable moment." Trump and Israel are both saying the same sort of bullshit (Israel said it was Petersen's duty to go into the school and kill the shooter), yet political affiliation--for most elected leaders--seems to control the response. It is terrifying to face that down, but for the love of Christ, there were kid being slaughtered in there and this was the job you signed up for. There's training and tactics. The cops on scene weren't there to be human shields or to die, but you go in, you don't stay outside and tremble while children who are your responsibility to protect are dying. Do you (go in)? I wasn't there. I don't know that Petersen should have gone in. It's a big fucking school (over 3000 students). Does he rush in the nearest door, run around helter skelter, accomplish nothing, then find out the shooter exited as he went in and shot people outside the school? If kids are coming out of the school, does he take any time to make sure they head to safety? Are some injured kids emerging or getting injured in the rush to escape and does he check on them? He's one guy. He's not a SWAT team. Pillorying this guy for not playing lone ranger is ugly stuff, imo. He's not to blame for what happened here and the fact that people are jumping on him is one of the many, many things--related to the tragedy--that currently disgusts me. I think that "Trump stops mugger" story is both suspect and irrelevant. But I also think that calling Petersen "cowardly" because he didn't rush in like a cowboy is unfair. If he had rushed in and opened fire on the shooter, then maybe killed another kid, the same people criticizing him now--and that includes Trump--would be all over him for not following proper procedures and waiting for backup. Using someone as a scapegoat in this manner doesn't demonstrate compassion for the real victims--the kids--at all, imo. It comes across as a petty attempt at self-aggrandizement, whether it'c coming from Trump, the Broward County sheriff, or anyone else. In the matter of Scot Petersen, ex-cop, fully-vested coward, let's extrapolate a few of robeiae's impassioned defenses of his (in)action. "He's not to blame for what happened." "Scapegoat." "It's not his fault." "He's not to blame for what happened here..." "I also think that calling Petersen "cowardly" because he didn't rush in like a cowboy is unfair."Yeah, I'm just gonna call BULLSHIT on alla that. And why? Because Scot Peterson IS a coward and he ran away. While that's despicable, it's not illegal. But THIS is.
It's a bad day to be a Scot Peterson fanboy. But cheer up! It's a much worse day to be Scott Peterson, so there is that.
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Post by robeiae on Jun 5, 2019 9:21:24 GMT -5
*shrug*
I'm good with what I've said. The shooting wasn't Peterson's fault, and he is being scapegoated, largely so many people--a good chunk of whom are on the "right"--can assuage their own feelings of guilt (which I also think is ridiculous, to have such feelings).
And charging Peterson with crimes for his actions (or lack thereof) is a bridge way too far, imo. Allowing that he's a total coward, that's not a crime. Or at least it shouldn't be.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2019 12:14:13 GMT -5
I don't think he should be charged with a crime. I think it's fucking stupid to think having a security guard is useful against a shooter with a semi-automatic, or that a low-paid human should be expected to sacrifice their life, almost certainly pointlessly. He might even have injured a student himself.
Not saying he acted heroically here. I'm just saying he didn't act in a way that should be criminal IMO, and I'm not so sure anything he did here would have helped.
He's a scapegoat for a bigass problem the nation doesn't want to take potentially unpopular steps to solve.
But I'm sure plenty are puffed up with righteousness right now, and that's what counts.
I think everyone all puffed up with outrage against this guy should take a position as a security guard where they might someday be faced with this situation. I mean, they're gonna do a better job, right? They're willing to dash right out into the path of an angry nutjob with a semi-automatic, right? So do it.
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Post by nighttimer on Jun 5, 2019 14:20:19 GMT -5
*shrug*I'm good with what I've said. The shooting wasn't Peterson's fault, and he is being scapegoated, largely so many people--a good chunk of whom are on the "right"--can assuage their own feelings of guilt (which I also think is ridiculous, to have such feelings). You can *shrug* and *LOL!* and *ROTFL* to your little heart's content. It doesn't come as a surprise that you're good with what you've previously said about this gutless turd. To say different would be a concession that you were wrong then and now and that simply ain't gonna happen because for some reason you've glommed onto this punk and have some weird compulsion to try to defend Peterson's indefensible behavior.
Far be it from me to tell someone they are wasting their time trying to salvage the rep of a craven weakling. So dive head first into those shallow waters, robeiae. It's your world, squirrel.
Just know if it was your ass in a sling, Scot Peterson wouldn't do a goddamn thing to help you.
Never did any time in the military, huh? Being a "total coward" is a crime in the armed forces:
But wait! Being a police officer is not like being a soldier. Sure, the police force might be considered a military organization per se, but it is a para-military organization and as such it has rules and codes of conduct. This is the Code of Honor of the International Association of Chiefs of Police:
Scot Peterson is no scapegoat. He's a fucking coward who failed to do his sworn duty and kids died. There's a big difference between a scapegoat and coward, but hey, it's not YOUR kid who's dead, so it's all good.
Enjoy your pity party.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2019 14:44:58 GMT -5
Oh, he was a soldier in battle? I had no idea.
He was holding a fucking handgun. He didn't stand a goddamn prayer of stopping the shooter. All he would have accomplished is suicide.
Go ahead and pat yourself on the back for how much more you care about the dead kids than the rest of us. No doubt the "teachers should be armed!" crowd will join you.
And then, having placed the blame, we can all pretend that if we just had courageous Good Guys With Handguns, no kids would die.
It's not the answer.
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Post by nighttimer on Jun 5, 2019 15:03:26 GMT -5
I don't think he should be charged with a crime. I think it's fucking stupid to think having a security guard is useful against a shooter with a semi-automatic, or that a low-paid human should be expected to sacrifice their life, almost certainly pointlessly. He might even have injured a student himself. You know what else is "fucking stupid?" It's fucking stupid to call Scot Peterson "a security guard" when he was a sheriff's deputy. Not a rent-a-cop, but a trained and armed law enforcement professional. Peterson didn't know what the fuck Nicolas Cruz was armed with. He was too busy keeping his fat ass out of the way and letting schoolkids and teachers find out for him. If Peterson wasn't expected to sacrifice his life in the line of his goddamn duty, maybe he shouldn't have been a cop in the first fucking place. Maybe if someone who did have the guts had the gun there might be a few more live kids at Parkland and a few less dead ones. We'll never know will we? Maybe you might wanna fly on down to Florida and offer your legal services to this coward, pro bono? What problem might that be? The "big-ass problem" here is not just the prick killing kids with a gun, but the second prick who wouldn't use his to kill the first prick. You? You, of ALL people are bent out of shape about "righteousness?" I see self-awareness is still something you lack. Your hypocrisy is hilarious, Cassandra. Or it would be if the situation wasn't so tragic. Nah. I got a better offer. You know so much, so why don't YOU do it?
You got all the answers. You know all about how "a security guard" deputy sheriff is supposed to react. Duck and cover. Every man for himself! Fuck the wimmen and children. Saving MY ass is what I'm all about. Just because I'm strapped don't mean I should actually pull my gun and shoot the killer before he kills again. Tough noogies, kids. Your "security guard" ain't here to provide no security for you. Guess you drew the shortest straw. Sucks 4 U.
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Is that what you would tell Emma Gonzalez, David Hogg or Cameron Kasky? /STFU and stop "scapegoating" poor Scot Peterson. Quit being so self-righteous and entitled. Maybe they should have fought harder to save their murdered classmates? Hell, even that racist little hustler Kyle Kashuv knows that's some janky-ass bullshit.
But hey, go right on and defend a cowardly little fuck who put his own welfare over that of kids. This little Superman and Lois Lane thang you and robieae are doing in defense of Scot Peterson is pretty weird as fuck, but if Peterson is the hill you wanna die on then as you say, you do you.
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Post by nighttimer on Jun 5, 2019 17:53:50 GMT -5
Oh, he was a soldier in battle? I had no idea. More like you had no clue. You thought and think Peterson is a fucking security guard, you silly thing you.
Ever hold a fucking handgun? Ever shoot a fucking handgun?
This is a 9mm. It's a standard issue police firearm. You think it can't kill a shooter? What if you creep up from behind and unload a full mag in a motherfucker's back and head?
Seems like it might make a smidge bit o' difference. The way you're patting yourself on the back for how much you and robovowels care about Scot Peterson than the dead kids?
I'm not the one on a moral high horse, but you sure are.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2019 21:52:38 GMT -5
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Post by nighttimer on Jun 5, 2019 23:34:04 GMT -5
Your impassioned defense of The Broward Coward touches me. Truly, it does. Kinda like an anal probe, yanno? But here's the thing. I got no fucks to give what your precious "legal experts" say. I got no fucks to give about any "law" that doesn't provide justice. I got no fucks to give about ambulance chasers whom would say Hitler didn't mean to commit genocide, but even if he did he was triggered by a unloving daddy. I got no fucks to give about any "laws" that protect bad cops from the consequences of being totally unqualified for the job they aren't doing. I got no fucks to give about your precious legal system. I thought I had made that pretty clear. Guess you must have forgotten that. Well, no biggie. I'm happy to remind you I give zero fucks what your precious "experts" have to say about your bullshit laws that are rigged, unfair, and designed to protect the criminally incompetent assholes like Scot "The Security Guard" Peterson. Y'see, Cassandra, it's not that I care more about the Parkland students than you do. It's that I care more about them than a fucking waste of air, skin and blood like the scumbag you're weeping your big-ass crocodile tears about. I care more---far more-- what the parents of those murdered students have to say than I will ever care what you have to say from the cozy comfort of your enclave, your privilege, and your box wine of merlot. Your precious legal system (because it isn't a "justice" system) on a regular basis lets shitty cops off. Usually for being hyper-aggressive and killing some Black teenager, but I would guess even a so-called "liberal" like you would grant that point. Or maybe not, just to be a contrarian. Anyway, it is pretty goddamned hard to convict a cop of anything in this country. \ Which doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't TRY. No matter who says we shouldn't because it is supposedly "scapegoating" the cop. Which is nonsense. All that's happening to Peterson is he's been held accountable for how well he did his job. You say he did just fine. Broward County seemingly disagrees with your absurd Alan Dershowitz-styled analysis and thank goodness for that. Because what you fail to see because you never bother looking beyond the surface is it doesn't matter if Scot Peterson is found guilty of the crimes he's charged with. What matters is that it is on the record and out in the open what a worthless, gutless COWARD he is. For now and forever, Peterson should be known as the cop who failed and didn't even TRY to succeed. I once heard a quote on Better Call Saul where ex-cop Mike Ehrmantraut says: That's what Peterson should fear. Going to prison. Going behind bars with all the other criminals. Going into the shit along with all the other scum. Going to the Iron Bar Hotel for an extended stay with hot and cold shanks waiting to be slipped under his throat or under his floating rib. That wouldn't fuck up my day. Prison is where he belongs and whatever happens to him there, happens. He'll still be better off than the kids and teachers he left to die. But Peterson probably won't go to prison. Hell, he probably won't even be convicted of anything. If it's true that a D.A. can indict a ham sandwich, an attorney can get that ham sandwich off with a small fine and 30 days probation. What matters is that for now, tomorrow and forever, this miserable little dickswab live his remaining years in misery, ridicule and contempt. Now that's not the law, but it would definitely be justice and that's what counts.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2019 8:16:45 GMT -5
To hell with whether he actually broke a law! To heck with whether anything in the penal codes would justify jail time for any of his actions ! He should be in prison forever!
We should do away with penal codes altogether and decide what to do with people based on current public sentiment or whoever yells loudest.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2019 10:57:41 GMT -5
I was being snarky in the previous post. (Obviously.) But in all sincerity, I suggest taking a good solid think about what the likely outcomes would be if we decided to say "Fuck the law! Fuck whether what you actually did is illegal or punishable by a jail sentence! Let's punish on feels!"
Not everything can or should be punishable by prison time. Even if we'd rather have given behavior be punishable by jail time, it's not a good thing to decide that randomly after the fact. ("Hey! Cowardice should be illegal! Lock him up!")
It's really frustrating, emotionally, that this guy was crouching outside while kids were being mowed down. Sure, it's possible if he'd acted, he might, maybe, have gotten lucky, managed to get behind the maniac with the semi-automatic, killed him, and saved lives. (I think more likely he'd have failed, and quite likely he'd have been killed.) But if he had no legal duty to charge in and risk his life, bootstrapping such a duty to put him in jail and make everyone feel better is a piss-poor idea. Once you start boot-strapping and stretching the law to suit people's emotions, you've set precedents that will eventually be used in a way you DON'T like -- I guarantee it.
The law isn't always applied equally, and that's wrong. But the way to fix that is to fight for it to be applied equally, not to say "let's flush law down the toilet." Sure, it might feel good in some cases. But when majority mob emotions decide how to punish rather than the penal code, who do you think is ultimately most likely to suffer?
So my question, as a lawyer, when it comes to applying a criminal penalty, is not "did this guy behave heroically" but rather "did he actually violate a criminal code"? It's not "did he act", but "did he have a legal duty to act"?
I'm not an expert on the relevant Florida laws. But it sounds to me like they're likely bootstrapping here. Maybe as the case develops, I'll see some facts or legal arguments that will convince me otherwise. But long rants on how cowardly he is sure as fuck won't do it.
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