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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 12:52:08 GMT -5
Actually, no. No, I do NOT know that Hillary is icky in the same way Trump is icky. Very much to the contrary, in fact. I have plenty to criticize her on, but she's nowhere, NOWHERE, in the ballpark, in a hundred different ways, that Trump is. Nowhere.
Clarification:
Do you think Russia attempted to influence our election by improper means -- e.g., hacking, creating misleading accounts that appeared to be American, disseminating propaganda, disseminating false information, attempting to stir up divisiveness among Americans?
Do you think Russia attempted to use people in the Trump campaign to influence our election?
Do you think anyone in the Trump campaign in fact cooperated with the Russians to influence our elections -- by, e.g., accepting or attempting to accept information from them?
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Post by maxinquaye on Feb 23, 2018 13:00:05 GMT -5
I'm no fan of Hillary Clinton. I think she's the worst candidate that the Democrats has ever run, even worse than Michael Dukakis. I think that if the DNC has held a national contest to find the worst candidate, Hillary Clinton would win with honours.
Clinton was a slightly corrupt, ideologically empty, and politically vacant politician in the same vein as Dianne Feinstein and Paul Ryan. But I don't think she's anywhere near as bad as Trump. Not even close.
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Post by mikey on Feb 23, 2018 13:20:00 GMT -5
Actually, no. No, I do NOT know that Hillary is icky in the same way Trump is icky. Very much to the contrary, in fact. I have plenty to criticize her on, but she's nowhere, NOWHERE, in the ballpark, in a hundred different ways, that Trump is. Nowhere. We'll just have to disagree on this. I don't believe a Hillery presidency would have been any better that the Trump presidency has been. Russia is a country. I don't believe the country ought to be held accountable for the behavior and actions of 13 people and 3 corporations. This broad brush tactic is what I disagree with. At least Mueller has the decency to name names with his indictments. Oh, and has people forgotten who financed the famous "dossier" ? Hint; it wasn't Trump
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 13:32:23 GMT -5
So. You presume only 13 people and three corporations were involved?
You believe Putin and his agents had nothing to do with it, at all?
And FFS. Please tell me you are not on the "teh Deep State is behind teh fake dossier which is why this whole nothingburger persectution of poor Trump is even happening" bandwagon. The damn "Memo" itself debunked that on its goddamn face.
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Post by maxinquaye on Feb 23, 2018 13:33:50 GMT -5
Oh, and has people forgotten who financed the famous "dossier" ? Hint; it wasn't Trump You're right. It wasn't Trump. It was the Republicans during their primaries who developed it as an oppo-research thing for the benefit of Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, etc by the conservative outlet The Washington Free Beacon. Then when Trump won it, the Democrats took over the dossier.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 13:41:04 GMT -5
Oh, and has people forgotten who financed the famous "dossier" ? Hint; it wasn't Trump You're right. It wasn't Trump. It was the Republicans during their primaries who developed it as an oppo-research thing for the benefit of Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, etc by the conservative outlet The Washington Free Beacon. Then when Trump won it, the Democrats took over the dossier. Yep. And the investigation into the Trump campaign started before McCain handed over the dossier. That's per the infamous "Memo". So...I forget. What does it have to do with whether Russia misbehaved and/or whether the Trump campaign/administration did something wrong?
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Post by mikey on Feb 23, 2018 13:52:05 GMT -5
Oh, and has people forgotten who financed the famous "dossier" ? Hint; it wasn't Trump You're right. It wasn't Trump. It was the Republicans during their primaries who developed it as an oppo-research thing for the benefit of Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, etc by the conservative outlet The Washington Free Beacon. Then when Trump won it, the Democrats took over the dossier. Yes, that's the way I've understood the genesis of it. I just think our own American political underhanded influencers are a bigger problem to our so-called democracy than some random Russian nationals are. And really, are these individual who Mueller indicted Russian nationals? Do they live in Russia? I don't know, and not sure it makes any difference.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 13:54:12 GMT -5
Does it make any difference that several people connected with the Trump campaign have been indicted/pleaded guilty?
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Post by mikey on Feb 23, 2018 13:57:05 GMT -5
So. You presume only 13 people and three corporations were involved? You believe Putin and his agents had nothing to do with it, at all? And FFS. Please tell me you are not on the "teh Deep State is behind teh fake dossier which is why this whole nothingburger persectution of poor Trump is even happening" bandwagon. The damn "Memo" itself debunked that on its goddamn face. Until Mueller tells us different, we gotta go with what we know, not what we wish it to be. I don't even know what you're trying to say with you're last point
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Post by prozyan on Feb 23, 2018 13:59:15 GMT -5
And so, of course, Trump goes to CPAC to lead cheers about locking up Hillary Clinton, to deride a war hero/brain cancer patient from his own party. And Trump says he loves veterans. I guess that doesn't extend to veteran war heroes who disagree with him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 14:01:49 GMT -5
And so, of course, Trump goes to CPAC to lead cheers about locking up Hillary Clinton, to deride a war hero/brain cancer patient from his own party. And Trump says he loves veterans. I guess that doesn't extend to veteran war heroes who disagree with him. Or gold star families that criticize him. ETA: He only likes veteran war heroes who agree with him AND weren't captured. Stupid jerks who hold out on betraying their country under years of torture are obviously scum. (I'm on team "sometimes McCain pisses me off and I often disagree with him, but I don't see how you don't acknowledge that he's a hero and a patriot.")
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Post by mikey on Feb 23, 2018 14:02:32 GMT -5
Does it make any difference that several people connected with the Trump campaign have been indicted/pleaded guilty? For Russian collusion? Yes it makes a huge difference. Fraud, money laundering is normal white collar crimes. I haven't seen yet, the connection to election tampering.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 14:09:57 GMT -5
Does it make any difference that several people connected with the Trump campaign have been indicted/pleaded guilty? For Russian collusion? Yes it makes a huge difference. Fraud, money laundering is normal white collar crimes. I haven't seen yet, the connection to election tampering. Don Jr. met with known money launderers. Trump won't show us his tax returns. He has some very odd ties with powerful (and corrupt) Russian figures. A shit-ton of people in Trump's campaign scurried around trying to hide and lie about their ties and contacts with Russian figures. You think it is all one big coincidence. Okay. I'm happy to wait and see whether your optimism pans out.
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Post by mikey on Feb 23, 2018 14:17:40 GMT -5
Cass, we'll be waiting together. Do you like nacho flavored chips? I've got a bag I'll share with you while we wait.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 14:23:04 GMT -5
Actually, I don't like them. I hate the way that orange cheesy stuff gets all over your fingers. And they taste chemically to me.
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