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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2018 16:06:11 GMT -5
ETA: Maaaaaxxxx? maxinquaye ! I wanna move to Sweeeeden! I do not belong here!
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Post by michaelw on Mar 3, 2018 17:43:52 GMT -5
And to make it worse, he switches back and forth on using an oxford comma. Unbelievable!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2018 17:50:32 GMT -5
And to make it worse, he switches back and forth on using an oxford comma. Unbelievable! It's wrong, Michael. It's just wrong.
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Post by celawson on Mar 3, 2018 17:53:40 GMT -5
I have 2 comments to make re: the OP 1) The letter was written to RELIGIOUS LEADERS to discuss with their respective FAITH COMMUNITIES. 2) Would you like to make fun of Native Americans, or Ethiopians, or the ancient Chinese, or how about the Thai farmers who perform the Cat Parade for rain? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainmaking_(ritual)indians.org/articles/rain-dance.htmlGo ahead -- ridicule away!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2018 18:15:07 GMT -5
The guy was writing in his capacity as governor, not as an individual, on his official stationary. The United States is not a theocracy. As an individual, he can do rain dances if he wants. I couldn't care less. But asking, as a governor, for people to pray for rain?
I think it's ridiculous and inappropriate. It would be equally ridiculous whatever his religion.
As a separate thing, I always wonder when I see stuff like this how such people envision God. Does He not notice droughts or the suffering and need of people until enough people pray? Or does He notice, but just not act until they pray? But that's a side issue -- he can believe whatever he wants to believe, but I find it ridiculous on government stationary.
It makes it worse given the refusal to accept climate change and do something about it, which is big among those who pray for rain. Part of the problem, I think, is the belief God will fix it. That makes me that much less patient with it.
You won't shame me, c.e. The finger-wagging is a complete waste of your time.
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Post by maxinquaye on Mar 3, 2018 18:25:40 GMT -5
I am more and more convinced that the French system of separation of church-and-state is the right way to go. Complete separation. The state is not allowed to do *anything* to promote or resist any religion. And anything that has to do with religion is completely removed from the public space.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2018 18:30:41 GMT -5
I am more and more convinced that the French system of separation of church-and-state is the right way to go. Complete separation. The state is not allowed to do *anything* to promote or resist any religion. And anything that has to do with religion is completely removed from the public space. Agree with this. I'm all for freedom of religion. People can worship chickens if they like. But their religious practices and pronouncements should be walled off from their official position and duties.
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Post by mikey on Mar 3, 2018 18:40:24 GMT -5
some good points here. Perhaps we could come up with a detailed list of what things are OK for a Governor to ask people to pray for?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2018 18:49:05 GMT -5
some good points here. Perhaps we could come up with a detailed list of what things are OK for a Governor to ask people to pray for? Detailed list of things it is appropriate for a governor to ask people to pray for:(1) Nothing. That said, I shrug when politicians mention god in passing in a speech. "God bless America.". Fine. Whatever. I am not going to blow a gasket over that. For that matter, I don't mind "I am praying for the Parkland kids and their families." But writing several paragraphs on government stationery in his capacity as governor asking religious communities to pray for rain is a good pitch beyond that. Especially since he seems to think it's a fix for climate change.
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Post by mikey on Mar 3, 2018 18:58:01 GMT -5
But you put your foot down if he ask anybody else to pray for Parkland kids and their families?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2018 18:59:08 GMT -5
If you want a job that involves asking, in your official capacity, for constituents to pray, I suggest "pastor," "reverend," "priest", "rabbi", etc.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2018 19:11:15 GMT -5
But you put your foot down if he ask anybody else to pray for Parkland kids and their families? My reaction depends on how he's doing it. If he's doing it at his church, in his capacity as a member of that church, he has my blessings. If he's doing it as governor -- Is it a line at the end of a speech expressing sympathy with the victims and the steps he's going to take as governor to prevent it from happening again? And it's an "our thought and prayers are with you"? or "keep the parkland kids in your thoughts and prayers?" Fine. Is he asking for a moment of silence (in which people may pray if they like)? Fine. But if he's leading a prayer -- yeah, I don't think a government official should be doing that in his official capacity. If he's writing people in order to ask them, as governor, specifically for the purpose of asking them to pray? Inappropriate.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2018 19:33:34 GMT -5
By the way? I am not arguing that it's illegal. It is not. I am not filing a brief to have it outlawed.
Indeed, I know I'd lose if I did.
However, for a number of reasons, I very much dislike the mix of church and state, and would much prefer them to be separate. I'd also prefer Trump to stop tweeting. I shall get neither. We've got a lot of praying and tweeting happening, and I'll have to live with both.
But I do find this -- the governor specifically writing to ask people to pray for rain -- ridiculous.
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Post by Angie on Mar 3, 2018 20:09:01 GMT -5
I find that inserting "Muslim" in place of "Christian" tends to put things in perspective. Would you be fine with a Muslim governor promoting Islam in their official capacity? I'm guessing the answer is no. That is why we HAVE a separation of church and state in this country.
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Post by Angie on Mar 3, 2018 20:19:45 GMT -5
I have 2 comments to make re: the OP 1) The letter was written to RELIGIOUS LEADERS to discuss with their respective FAITH COMMUNITIES. 2) Would you like to make fun of Native Americans, or Ethiopians, or the ancient Chinese, or how about the Thai farmers who perform the Cat Parade for rain? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainmaking_(ritual)indians.org/articles/rain-dance.htmlGo ahead -- ridicule away! As soon as our elected officials, who are supposed to be serving ALL of their constituents, start promoting those forms of religion and/or woo, then yes - I will speak out against them, too.
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