|
Post by robeiae on Apr 24, 2018 7:04:04 GMT -5
Yes, because that's what this is all about: teaching things.
*rolls eyes across the floor*
Again, I DIS-A-GREE with you that her stupidity here is something that needs to be protected. It wasn't a function of her actual duties; it was her being a public ass and--imo--an embarrassment to the university. You seem locked into some sort of paradigm here wherein behavior like hers must necessarily be tolerated in order to guarantee academic freedom. Why? We're thinking people. Contrary to some opinions, so are a lot of people in positions of authority. Her actions are easily separated from her academic duties.
|
|
|
Post by Amadan on Apr 24, 2018 7:41:58 GMT -5
Yes, because that's what this is all about: teaching things. *rolls eyes across the floor*
Again, I DIS-A-GREE with you that her stupidity here is something that needs to be protected. It wasn't a function of her actual duties; it was her being a public ass and--imo--an embarrassment to the university. You seem locked into some sort of paradigm here wherein behavior like hers must necessarily be tolerated in order to guarantee academic freedom. Why? We're thinking people. Contrary to some opinions, so are a lot of people in positions of authority. Her actions are easily separated from her academic duties. You're conflating individual incidents with a general principle. I do not disagree that Randa Jarrar is an ass. And probably a lousy teacher. If you believe that university professors, even with tenure, should be fired if they say stupid and offensive things while "off duty," you are effectively saying that university professors should be fired if they offend powerful people. Because any professor who is politically opinionated is probably going to say things that offend someone, often in print (or digital text), especially nowadays, because part of the job description is intellectual engagement. It's not just classroom hours. Yes, that means some professors, like Randa Jarrar, are going to express very, very stupid and offensive opinions. So really, this is about free speech, if not literally the First Amendment, because the whole point of free speech as a principle is that if you won't defend it in the case of people being jerks, you're not really defending free speech at all, only speech that doesn't offend you personally. Everyone is a jerk to someone else. Yes, I do in fact I think Randa Jarrar's behavior - tweeting nasty things about Barbara Bush (not necessarily the other stuff, which as discussed, may have crossed the threshold of professionally protected conduct) needs to be protected to guarantee academic freedom. Why? Because if you say today that tweeting nasty things about Barbara Bush is a fireable offense, even for a tenured professor, tomorrow every single professor who's tweeted nasty things about Trump (or Obama) will find their jobs in jeopardy. Oh, you think people in positions of authority are thinking people and will never start threatening professors who express inflammatory opinions (or opinions that offend a major donor to the school), only the really egregious assholes like Jarrar? Then you're naive. Politicians have a long history of wanting to shut down university professors with opinions they hate. Conservatives would like to "clean house" and get rid of all the Marxists (which nowadays means pretty much anyone on the left). Liberals would like to get rid of all the professors sticking to principle and not bowing to the modern Social Justice narrative. Once you open the doors to firing professors who "embarrass" the school or saying anything offensive while not "on duty," you've effectively ended academic freedom. University professors will have no more freedom of speech than any regular employee of a private corporation - piss off your boss, you're fired. If you think that's fine, then you see no fundamental difference between academia and other fields. In which case, I think you're wrong and terrible for the future of education. I know it's very fashionable to sneer at college professors and their ivory tower theories and their protected tenured positions from which they frequently spout wooly-headed nonsense, but academia is still important, and if you can't put up with the occasional idiots and Marxists and Marxist idiots, you won't get the geniuses who actually advance the arts and sciences either. (And by geniuses, I don't just mean the professors themselves, but the students they teach.)
|
|
|
Post by Vince524 on Apr 25, 2018 11:51:36 GMT -5
Got to side with Amadan here. The point, or at least part of the point of tenure for a professor is so they can discuss controversial issues. Yes, I think her tweet was asinine, and doesn't really contribute much if anything to a political discussion. I think she should receive some internal rebuke for the hotline thing, and maybe be made to apologize for that. (Not giving the fake #, just THAT fake #)
On the other hand, she's on their radar. Her contract will end and the college is under no obligation to reinstate it. Many students may complain that they don't want to take her class. I think she's an ass.
Her victory may be short lived.
|
|
|
Post by Optimus on Apr 25, 2018 14:20:46 GMT -5
If she's tenured, her contract will not end. That's the point of tenure.
|
|
|
Post by Vince524 on Apr 25, 2018 18:33:52 GMT -5
I thought it meant she couldn't be fired.
Either way, what happens if nobody takes her class?
|
|
|
Post by Amadan on Apr 25, 2018 19:29:24 GMT -5
I thought it meant she couldn't be fired. Either way, what happens if nobody takes her class? It's not that she can't be fired. It's just very difficult to fire tenured professors. They can only be fired for cause - as opposed to most employees, who can be fired for pretty much anything as long as it's not discrimination against a protected class. If no one took her class, they'd have to find non-teaching duties for her. But realistically, that is not going to happen. Do you really think the entire student body is going to rise up against her? Her students are probably mostly not going to be outraged that a professor tweeted something mean about Barbara Bush.
|
|