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Post by Optimus on Jul 18, 2018 0:04:42 GMT -5
This is what progressives reap when they select a young, mostly unqualified, embarrassingly uninformed person to run for office for no reason other than "uh...b'cuz progressive." As much as I really want that purported "blue wave" to happen in November, if the left promotes any more of these far-lefties with nutjob ideas and little actual knowledge as their candidates of choice, they're going to ensure their continued defeat in November 2018 and 2020. A day after she admitted that she doesn't know what the hell she's talking about when it comes to geopolitics (after being pressed by a reporter to explain her nonsensical statements)*, Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez claimed that the unemployment rate is low right now "because everyone has two jobs:" reason.com/blog/2018/07/17/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-unemployment*Interestingly, she fully admitted in that vid that she spoke out against Israel simply because she was an activist and wasn't actually informed, which I think speaks volumes about the mindset of far left/right "activists:" a lot of times, they're bitching just to bitch, knowing full well that they don't actually know what they're talking about and probably having no real clue why they're bitching in the first place.
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Post by prozyan on Jul 18, 2018 4:55:59 GMT -5
...mostly unqualified, embarrassingly uninformed person to run for office.... nutjob ideas and little actual knowledge Hell, it has worked for the GOP in recent years....
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Post by Don on Jul 18, 2018 5:32:29 GMT -5
A politicians' job is to get re-elected. We don't know yet how good a politician Ms. Ocasio-Cortez might prove to be. I think she has a huge constituency as fully informed as Trump's. The era of the statesman is long past; why people keep expecting them to show up on the ballot escapes me.
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Post by robeiae on Jul 18, 2018 6:00:20 GMT -5
She's had a number of gaffes since she won, and she seems pretty clueless on some stuff. FYI, she went to BU, where she majored in economics and international relations. That's a good school, right? Tangent: here's her wiki page. The discussion on it is hi-larious.
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Post by Optimus on Jul 18, 2018 13:23:40 GMT -5
A politicians' job is to get re-elected. We don't know yet how good a politician Ms. Ocasio-Cortez might prove to be. I think she has a huge constituency as fully informed as Trump's. The era of the statesman is long past; why people keep expecting them to show up on the ballot escapes me. I'm not convinced that her constituency is "huge" and there have not been nearly enough defeats of incumbents to warrant any declarations that the era of statesmen is "long past" (though I'd be totally fine with term limits). Despite what several news articles have said, although she won by a large percentage margin, she didn't win with a large amount of votes (only 4136), because hardly anyone voted in that primary (relatively speaking). New York's 14th district is home to 235,745 registered Democrats, of which only 27,658 (just under 12%) bothered to show up to vote. Crowley had won that seat 10 times in a row and seemed to have run a very lazy campaign, not taking her seriously at all to the point that he skipped a debate he was supposed to have with her. In the wake of the anger at Trump's border separation policies she (smartly) leveraged that anger with her (idiotic) "abolish ICE" platform and far-left rhetoric full of empty "free everything!" promises. She only received just under 16,000 votes compared to his roughly 12,000. didn't win the election as much as his laziness lost it. He's usually run unopposed so I doubt he's even had to get off his ass for a primary in over a decade. I imagine she'll still win the main election because the district is heavily Democrat and they'll show up to vote for her mainly because she's the Democrat on the ticket. And if she does well, I imagine her popularity will grow in her district, but I'm not willing to characterize 12,000 voters out of 236,000 as a "huge constituency."
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Post by Optimus on Jul 18, 2018 13:30:15 GMT -5
She's had a number of gaffes since she won, and she seems pretty clueless on some stuff. FYI, she went to BU, where she majored in economics and international relations. That's a good school, right? Tangent: here's her wiki page. The discussion on it is hi-larious. Ha, reading through the discussion page is amusing. Interestingly, someone resurrected the corpse of Joe Lieberman today and breathed enough life in it to urge people to vote for Crowley over Ocasio-Cortez. Crowley's name is still technically on November's ballot, so there's a small chance he could still win. If all the people who normally vote for him show up in November and vote for him again, she'll lose. I kind of doubt that will happen, especially given that Crowley has thrown his support behind her, but it'll be an interesting race to watch.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 13:41:33 GMT -5
She's not stupid by any means, and she seems sincere, honest, idealistic, hard-working, and gung-ho to do some good for her constituents. That's all to the good and frankly quite a bit better than, say, a racist, ignorant child molester who thinks the world is flat, doesn't know Russia isn't our friend etc.
The problem is that she's very young and doesn't have much experience putting her ideas into actual practical form and implementing them. Yes, I totally take Opty's point, and yes, I've also cringed and shook my head a couple of times as she's demonstrated lack of knowledge in various areas. How good she'll ultimately be, I don't know, but I think she'll learn on the job and get more practical and knowledgeable fairly quickly (though I'm guessing there will be some bumps on the way). If she'd been in my district, I probably would have gone for the incumbent Democrat guy because I'm all into experience and shit. But I'm not all that worried about her -- not yet, anyway -- because (see my first sentence of this post).
I also think the fear that democrats are going to push Ocasia-esque candidates everywhere are way overblown. Dems have run and won with a pile of centrist candidates in more moderate districts. If you take a look at her district, you'll see it's very, very, very, very liberal with a yuuuuuuge minority population. Not really a surprise she's a win there. I don't think the Dem powers-that-be are under any illusions such a candidate would fly in, say, Kansas.
She will certainly defeat the Republican candidate who runs against her -- he doesn't have a prayer in that district. I'd certainly be voting for her were it my district, since I plan to vote a straight Democratic ticket come hell or high water until Trump is safely out of the office and the Republican party returns to something approaching normalcy, since I think that's the only way we'll get Trump in check. And I'm confident that the overwhelming majority of Democrats feel the same way (and a fair helping of independents, too). Certainly in her district they do.
Things I don't think she'll do? Sexually harass people. Take payoffs from the NRA. Buy a $40,000 dining room table or a sound-free booth for her office.
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Post by Optimus on Jul 18, 2018 13:59:10 GMT -5
She's not stupid by any means, and she seems sincere, honest, idealistic, hard-working, and gung-ho to do some good for her constituents. That's all to the good and frankly quite a bit better than, say, a racist, ignorant child molester who thinks the world is flat, doesn't know Russia isn't our friend etc. I don't think she's stupid either. Just severely uninformed and misguided on several major issues. That's why I found her accidental admission about her activism being uninformed so telling. I'm hoping that time spent as an actual politician will teach her some reality. Did Crowley do any of these things? She's not running against Trump, so I'm not sure how any of this is germaine to her actual situation. Democrats really need to start putting forth a coherent platform. "But look at how horrible Trump is!" is not a coherent platform. They need to figure out what they stand for, not just what they stand against, and start communicating that loudly and consistently to the public. Admittedly, Ocasio-Cortez did that. I just don't feel that her extreme platform is one that appeals to a large segment of voters nationwide, so that's not one I'd suggest Democrats jump on board with. Bernie's message resonated with a lot of people, despite him also being woefully ignorant of foreign policy and on what the definition of Socialism actually is. If the Dems could put forth a message like that, but tweak it to be realistic, coherent, and intelligent (rather than the Bernie approach of just a noun, a verb, and the phrase "millionaires and billionaires" repeated ad nauseam) then I think they'd be in a much better position.
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Post by robeiae on Jul 18, 2018 15:42:09 GMT -5
I can't say if she's stupid or smart or somewhere in between. But someone who has a degree in economics should have some inkling of how the unemployment rate is figured, imo.
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Post by celawson on Jul 18, 2018 15:58:52 GMT -5
Is she honest, though? Look at her website bio: ocasio2018.com/about She cleverly avoids saying she lived in Yorktown, a very nice and somewhat affluent area, but emphasizes only the Bronx. She states her father was a "small businessman" when he apparently was actually a partner in a prominent architecture firm that brought in $500,000 in annual revenue. She says her father died when she was a teenager (and that's very tragic and sad for her and I'm sorry), but she was a sophomore in college when he died, which usually means 19 or 20 years old, yes 19's a teenager but you know what I'm getting at. Her website says she grew up in a working-class household. Is it really a working class household when your father is an architect at a firm that brings in 500k a year? She emphasizes her mother "scrubbed toilets". Well, she cleaned houses (although I've seen it was her grandmother not her mother that cleaned houses), so I guess scrubbing toilets is part of that. I scrub toilets, too. Sheesh. I think she's trying very hard to present herself as from a lower socioeconomic background than her solidly middle-class (if not upper middle class) childhood. It seems not very honest to me.
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Post by robeiae on Jul 18, 2018 16:28:03 GMT -5
I think she's trying very hard to present herself as from a lower socioeconomic background than her solidly middle-class (if not upper middle class) childhood. It seems not very honest to me. I agree. But then, this is true for a yuuuge chunk of Congress critters on both sides of the aisle. Everyone wants to be seen as having "roots" that allow them to relate to the general populace, and so many stretch the truth here that it's kinda tough to single her out, I think. Hell, Obama did the same thing. So did Al Gore. And Romney. And Trump. And Hillary Clinton (Bill actually was poor). This actually dove-tails into the issue of being self-made, I think. Almost everyone wants others to see them self-made, especially when they're running for office. So I guess I have a hard time faulting her too much here; it's not like she grew up with a silver spoon in her mouth, after all. Though I will say that an architect is not a "working class" kind of job, at all.
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Post by prozyan on Jul 18, 2018 18:07:57 GMT -5
Is she honest, though? I think she's trying very hard to present herself as from a lower socioeconomic background than her solidly middle-class (if not upper middle class) childhood. It seems not very honest to me. Embellishing a resume with truth stretching, whether in politics or not, is common practice. I'm not going to question her honesty because of that. I agree, but then again, I'm not sure those are the main qualities we should look for when electing people. I prefer experience and actual knowledge of issues. I don't know if the "well, they aren't an asshole" platform will ultimately be successful.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 18:52:16 GMT -5
Would love to see c.e.'s sources... Anyway,
first, I agree with Rob and Prozyan that it's pretty common practice to romanticize your roots a bit and it's just not a big deal unless what you're hiding is criminal or in some other way relevant to your holding an office of public trust. Second, I've read that Ms. Ocasia-Cortez disputes the right-wing media's characterization of her family as upper middle class. Will look for the article later (am on my way out to grab dinner now). She may have stretched a bit, perhaps she was more like middle class than working class, but she's certainly not from the upper middle class. I've seen a photo of the house --it's hardly palatial. She worked as a waitress and a bartender -- hardly jobs you take when you're living high on the hog. Her father's business was in the Bronx and focused on remodeling and renovations -- and if the business took in 500K a year, that's actually not all that much, after he pays business expenses like salaries, rent for the business space (business space costs a bloody fortune in NYC, even in the Bronx, even for a small place in a crap neighborhood), etc. -- especially in the NYC area. He wasn't building stuff for Trump, that's for sure.
Of course I don't think that not sexually harassing people, not taking payoffs, and not buying ludicrously expensive office decor qualify someone for public office. And I agree that she has a lot to learn and wouldn't have been my first choice by any means -- I would have voted for the incumbent, as I said. My only point in saying that was to point out that we have a shit ton of far worse people holding office now, not to mention running for it, so there's only so much I can wring my hands over her.
I promise to wring my hands if the people like her start winning Democratic primaries in districts that aren't screamingly left -- I don't think that would be a good thing. But I don't think it's going to happen. And in her district -- well, she's actually quite a bit more representative of it than the incumbent was, so it's not really that surprising to me that she won it.
Okay. I need food. Also a drink. Or three.
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Post by Amadan on Jul 18, 2018 19:42:14 GMT -5
Is she honest, though? Look at her website bio: ocasio2018.com/about She cleverly avoids saying she lived in Yorktown, a very nice and somewhat affluent area, but emphasizes only the Bronx. She states her father was a "small businessman" when he apparently was actually a partner in a prominent architecture firm that brought in $500,000 in annual revenue. She says her father died when she was a teenager (and that's very tragic and sad for her and I'm sorry), but she was a sophomore in college when he died, which usually means 19 or 20 years old, yes 19's a teenager but you know what I'm getting at. Her website says she grew up in a working-class household. Is it really a working class household when your father is an architect at a firm that brings in 500k a year? She emphasizes her mother "scrubbed toilets". Well, she cleaned houses (although I've seen it was her grandmother not her mother that cleaned houses), so I guess scrubbing toilets is part of that. I scrub toilets, too. Sheesh. I think she's trying very hard to present herself as from a lower socioeconomic background than her solidly middle-class (if not upper middle class) childhood. It seems not very honest to me.
Oh so what?
No, seriously, Opty gave a decent list of Ocasio-Cortez's deficiencies in basic grasp of facts and economics, but this? This is reaching. And it obviously came from some talking points you saw circulating, unless you want to convince me you are personally familiar with Brooklyn neighborhoods and just spotted all those inconsistencies yourself looking at her bio. So whoop de do, she tries to present herself as being slightly less privileged than she is. Her political resume may be a bit fluffed, if not strictly untrue (a $500K architectural firm in NYC is a relatively small business, and yes, a 19-year-old is technically still a teenager), but I cannot believe that this pings your "dishonest politician" radar.
But to Opty's points, I kind of feel like saying "So what?" too. I mean, I agree, Ocasio-Cortez is a pretty horrible candidate and probably would endorse full-throated socialism if not outright Marxism, if she thought she could get away with it, and I have no doubt that she is a Social Justice Warrior of the first degree. But... it's NYC, and she's not exactly some radical new development in the most liberal Democratic districts. I don't think she's even close to being the dumbest. (See: Maxine Waters.)
Now if she were running for President (and was a serious candidate), I'd be worried. Frankly, I don't much like Kamala Harris, who seems to be the SJW that is actually being floated as a Presidential candidate.
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Post by Christine on Jul 18, 2018 22:26:53 GMT -5
Is she honest, though? Look at her website bio: ocasio2018.com/about She cleverly avoids saying she lived in Yorktown, a very nice and somewhat affluent area, but emphasizes only the Bronx. So did they start out in the Bronx? If so, that would have been part of her experience, maybe even a large part of her formative years. I don't know where you're getting that figure but if it's true, $500,000 in revenue (revenue is defined as earnings before business expenses) split between at least two and possibly more than two partners, is actually not a whole lot of money. It definitely qualifies as "small," especially in the NY area. And for how many years was there revenue like that, for how many years did they live in the "somewhat affluent" Yorktown before he, yanno, died. I really don't. If she was 19, she was a teenager. Are you really parsing between a 19 year old who loses her father and a 16 year old who loses her father? You scrub your own toilets. You do not scrub other people's toilets, nor do you clean houses, with all of the dirt, piss, hair, scum, etc. that goes with that job, and for which the pay is typically not much.
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