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Post by Don on Feb 22, 2019 7:38:35 GMT -5
Charm is just low-grade charisma, and this country has had just about all the charismatic, incompetent leaders it can handle. It's a guaranteed vote-getter, we all know that. So many people conflate charisma and competence.
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Post by nighttimer on Feb 22, 2019 10:22:48 GMT -5
Also, adorable videos of her abound. As a dog lover, this one particularly appealed. Optimus haggis -- you'll both like this. Whatever one might think of her politically, I think it would be difficult to deny she's got charm. Difficult, yes. Impossible, no. Charm is just low-grade charisma, and this country has had just about all the charismatic, incompetent leaders it can handle. It's a guaranteed vote-getter, we all know that. So many people conflate charisma and competence. Much as the way you confuse cynical attempts at profoundness with mere spiteful vindictiveness.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is admired by millions and respected even by her enemies. You, on the other hand, are simply some blowhard bozo on a debate board railing at a young woman who is putting her philosophy into motion instead of posting them online in the vain hope someone might actually read them.
It's odd. You spend so much time thinking about her whereas she spends no time thinking about you. Kind of a one-sided relationship, ain't it?
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Post by robeiae on Mar 10, 2019 18:48:55 GMT -5
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Post by Optimus on Mar 10, 2019 21:59:27 GMT -5
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Post by Don on Mar 11, 2019 6:13:13 GMT -5
Bill Nye has always been a member of the Jester class, as the comparison to Dolph shows. His job is moving the Overton Window. He's right up there with Dr. Oz and Dr. Phil in my book. His willful denial of settled science in economics is a sad thing in one who purports to support truth.
And AOC's definition is about 11 eggs short of a dozen.
ETA: At it's base, capitalism is the recognition that the production of higher-order goods requires the creation and accumulation of lower-order goods that are used as tools to produce higher-order goods. Those lower-order goods become capital in the production of the higher-order goods.
The accumulation of wealth, either stockpiled or spent on end-user goods, is not capitalism. Wealth accumulated and reinvested in the production of ever higher-order goods is capitalism in action, and that's how the world gets richer.
Like I said, 11 eggs short of a dozen.
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Post by Don on Mar 11, 2019 6:29:44 GMT -5
OMG, Optimus , that #BillMeetScience story is too funny. When he finally responded, he blew the science. He actually reinforces a popular misconception in pursuit of a catchy tag line. See, Bill, although most people think a plane flies because the wind on the bottom of the (slanted) wing pushes the plane up, it's actually the laminar flow on the TOP of the wing that produces lift. The laminar flow beneath the wing contributes nothing but drag. If the angle of attack is enough to apply positive pressure to the bottom of the wing, you're actually in stall mode. So all you've done is reinforce junk science and give people who don't know aerodynamics another expert to quote to support their uninformed opinion that "wind under the wing pushes the plane up." This is the same sloppy process that encourages fake news. But who gives a crap about truth in the face of a clever catch-phrase? We could rename this thread "Ocasio-Cortez understands the unemployment rate like Bill Nye understands aerodynamics."
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Post by Vince524 on Mar 11, 2019 12:45:52 GMT -5
Congrats Don. You’ve officially ruined Wind Beneath My Wings for me.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 11, 2019 14:56:42 GMT -5
OMG, Optimus , that #BillMeetScience story is too funny. When he finally responded, he blew the science. He actually reinforces a popular misconception in pursuit of a catchy tag line. See, Bill, although most people think a plane flies because the wind on the bottom of the (slanted) wing pushes the plane up, it's actually the laminar flow on the TOP of the wing that produces lift. The laminar flow beneath the wing contributes nothing but drag. If the angle of attack is enough to apply positive pressure to the bottom of the wing, you're actually in stall mode. So all you've done is reinforce junk science and give people who don't know aerodynamics another expert to quote to support their uninformed opinion that "wind under the wing pushes the plane up." This is the same sloppy process that encourages fake news. But who gives a crap about truth in the face of a clever catch-phrase? We could rename this thread "Ocasio-Cortez understands the unemployment rate like Bill Nye understands aerodynamics." Or we could rename this thread "The Thread That Proves Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Right and Cynical Moderates Change Nothing."
The more Ocasio-Cortez plays this game the better she's getting at it.
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Post by robeiae on Mar 11, 2019 18:25:11 GMT -5
Well sure, she's getting better at it in the same way people like Trump got better at it: peddling ignorance to people who are unable to identify it as such, because that's an easy road to attention and popularity.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 11, 2019 22:32:49 GMT -5
Well sure, she's getting better at it in the same way people like Trump got better at it: peddling ignorance to people who are unable to identify it as such, because that's an easy road to attention and popularity. If that's your idea of "thoughtful political discussion" it's really weak. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez doesn't peddle "ignorance." She doesn't traffic in racial hatred or bragging about how smart she is or how wealthy she is or how she's so much smarter than everyone else in the room. That's what your Twitter buddy does, and by making that transparently false comparison to Trump, the only ignorance I see being peddled here comes courtesy of you.
The fact is, unlike the bumbling, greedy and profoundly stupid Sarah Palin, Ocasio-Cortez has turned her 15 minutes of fame toward public service and trying to make a real difference instead of reality TV shows and accruing personal wealth. Her appeal to young (and old) liberals isn't built on frustration, anger and fear Trump promotes, but based upon the economic reality that while an elite few are doing quite well, the vast many have not shared in the wealth. She thinks America can do better. Those whom are too comfortable, too complacent or too cowardly, would prefer to keep their heads down, nose to the grindstone tolling away at a shit job for shit pay in the vain hope they too can someday join their betters at the parties in places they aren't invited to.
I've watched with interest how Ocasio-Cortez has supplanted Hillary Clinton as the go-to liberal woman that arouses the most anger and scorn of conservatives, and particularly conservative White men. They can't stand her, but yet find themselves strangely drawn to her because she doesn't back down from their attacks and when she claps back it is fire. Strong women frighten weak men. But they fascinate them too. Add youth, confidence, impatience with the status quo and eagerness to change it, and a marked disinterest in sitting down, shutting up and waiting her turn to speak, all makes Ocasio-Cortez the fantasy woman of Right-wing (bad) dreams.
AOC annoys and irritates the Right and she's doing the Lord's work in doing so. The comfortable should be made uncomfortable. The rancid rancor and spittle-flying spitefulness exhibited in this thread is pathetic. All this angst over one 29-year-old socialist, first-term Congresswoman who used to be a bartender is really quite revealing. Even in a time when conservatives have control of the presidency, the U.S. Senate, the majority of statehouses and governor offices and with the courts next on their To-Do List, they still soil themselves over AOC. Not for the power she wields, which is minimal, but for the hearts and minds she is reaching and influencing which may be incalculable.
If AOC seems like an extremist to her detractors it is in no small part due to their unfamiliarity with a woman of color who tells them what she thinks instead of what they want to hear.
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Post by Don on Mar 12, 2019 7:32:29 GMT -5
You too, can audition for the role of your life.
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Post by robeiae on Mar 12, 2019 7:32:47 GMT -5
If that's your idea of "thoughtful political discussion" it's really weak. Lol. You're so transparent and weak-minded, it's scary. Disagree. She's saying what amounts to nonsense about the economy and economics and she's just about 100% ideological (which, I'll allow, makes her significantly different from Trump). The GND is a pipe dream contrived by people who don't understand math, in my view (maybe we can thank common core for that). Double Lol. It's funny as hell that you want to claim some sort of ownership over her because she's a "woman of color." Frankly, I don't think too many people actually give a shit about that aspect of her, on the right or the left, just the fringe racists and race merchants. But she's certainly telling people what she thinks. The problem is with what she thinks. Unfortunately, she thinks a lot of stupid things.
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Post by robeiae on Mar 12, 2019 7:35:17 GMT -5
You too, can audition for the role of your life. And like any such process, the young and the pretty will have a distinct advantage.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 12, 2019 10:16:57 GMT -5
If that's your idea of "thoughtful political discussion" it's really weak. Lol. You're so transparent and weak-minded, it's scary. You're partially right. I'm transparently unimpressed by your lame critiques and too strong-minded to be offended by sophomoric insults. But by all means, be scared. Be very scared.
LOL, that.
Not ownership. Kinship. I do so enjoy any person of color who pisses off people of non-color. Therein lies a difference but I wouldn't expect you to know what it is.
Frankly, I do think too many people actually give a shit about that aspect of AOC on the right because she's a scary-ass Latina and especially the over-the-fringe racists like Trump and race-babbling morons that think like him or merely go along with his bullshit.
You minimize the relevance of race because you think it doesn't matter. In truth, it just doesn't matter to you.
Yet, she's wildly exceeding your minimal expectations for both popularity and influence. How are you doing on that score?
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Post by prozyan on Mar 12, 2019 11:13:28 GMT -5
Germany isn't exactly proof the NGD works. They have the 2nd highest cost for electricity in the EU (2nd only to Denmark, another "NGD success story"), are currently clearing forests and wildland for new coal mines, and import a silly amount of energy for a country that is powered by renewable energy.
Not to mention Germany is about the size of Montana, so comparing what Germany does to what the US can do is fallacy.
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