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Post by nighttimer on Mar 12, 2019 13:30:14 GMT -5
Germany isn't exactly proof the NGD works. They have the 2nd highest cost for electricity in the EU (2nd only to Denmark, another "NGD success story"), are currently clearing forests and wildland for new coal mines, and import a silly amount of energy for a country that is powered by renewable energy. Not to mention Germany is about the size of Montana, so comparing what Germany does to what the US can do is fallacy.
Most of the scoffing at the Green New Deal, without offering a viable alternative, only goes to show Alexis de Tocuedeville was dead on it when he observed, “I cannot help fearing that men may reach a point where they look on every new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may absolutely refuse to move at all.”
Whatever option one considers when it comes to global climate change, absolute refusal to move at all is not an option at all.
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Post by robeiae on Mar 12, 2019 13:41:06 GMT -5
Not ownership. Kinship. I do so enjoy any person of color who pisses off people of non-color. Therein lies a difference but I wouldn't expect you to know what it is. Oh, I know what it is. It's the same sort of assumption--that of self-importance based on race--that is the basis for things like white privilege. Really, there's nothing to debate, since this particular "policy initiative" is sorely lacking in specifics. And I think the reason why is that no one behind it can figure out a way to make the math work. Disagree. The people who are constantly bringing up Ocasio-Cortez's race are the people on the left--like you--who imagine it's some sort of defense mechanism, who see everything first and foremost through the prism of race. While it's the only thing that matters to you, apart from her politics. It doesn't matter if she gets her facts wrong, it doesn't matter if she says ridiculous things, all that matters is that you can put her in that "POC" box and that she's a Democrat. Those two things mean she must be defended no matter what, right? I don't know, how are you doing on it? Trump's a belligerent asshole who says stupid things all the time, who many think is also a racist and a moron. Yet he's doing pretty good on both fronts. Is this really the argument you want to make, that it doesn't matter if someone in politics says stupid things, as long as they remain popular? Wonderful...
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 12, 2019 15:17:59 GMT -5
Not ownership. Kinship. I do so enjoy any person of color who pisses off people of non-color. Therein lies a difference but I wouldn't expect you to know what it is. Oh, I know what it is. It's the same sort of assumption--that of self-importance based on race--that is the basis for things like white privilege.No, you showed you don't know what it is. Not when you make an inept and inaccurate comparison between Racial Consciousness to White Privilege. All you've done is demonstrated how you don't understand what White Privilege is.
Race is not the assumption of self-importance. Race is the recognition how human beings are regarded and treated differently based upon nothing other than the color of their skin. All you've done is selfishly indulge your blinkered fantasy that race is an artificial construct without relevance. Neither history or reality lend any meaning to that dogmatic delusion.
But fear not. This is not entirely your fault. You are a victim of both your privilege and your socialization. But it does not follow that AOC or any person of color has to defer to or cater to your blind spots. Something is seriously wrong with any White man who says a focus on race by a Brown woman or a Black man is "self-importance." That is a whole other level of arrogant presumption and clueless privilege, but I'm focused on my business, so I give zero fucks about trying to understand how a grown-ass man gets that way.
Come get your life.
This board is lousy with threads where there's really nothing to debate and they die on the vine as we both know all too well. This particular policy initiative called the Green New Deal is worth debating and I would think you'd be happy to have the activity on this board. But if there's nothing to debate, why are you bothering to comment here and the other thread specifically designated to the GND?
Either it is worth debating or you're trolling.
Quelle surprise. Which part do you disagree about? That AOC is a scary-ass Latina or that over-the-fringe racists like Trump and race-babbling morons that think like him go along with his bullshit?
Spoken like a White man who doesn't see anything through the prism of race. Same as it ever was.
For the record, I have no problem calling out anyone that's a bad actor regardless of their race. If I see everything first and foremost through the prism of race it's because I'm not stupid and I'm fully conscious how much race matters and I see through that prism very clearly.
There aren't enough Black, Asian, Latino, Native American, Muslim or lesbian women in power for them not to be defended. God knows White men cape and cover for other White men ALL the futhamuckin' time (Hello, Brent Kavanaugh! I see you, Roy Moore!) and don't see a thing wrong about it. Ain't no sin to call out AOC when she's wrong and call out the troops when she's under siege by the Right
Wrong. But then that's a question that's been asked and answered many times by me in response to dudes like you.
Just fine. Thanks for asking.
That's not my argument and you'll have to really dig to find any remark made by me where it ever was. Trump is doing pretty good because there's no shortage of belligerent assholes and racist morons. It does matter if someone in politics says stupid things, but it doesn't actually matter until the majority of voters agree.
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Post by prozyan on Mar 12, 2019 15:41:29 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Mar 12, 2019 15:47:21 GMT -5
No, you showed you don't know what it is. Not when you make an inept and inaccurate comparison between Racial Consciousness to White Privilege. All you've done is demonstrated how you don't understand what White Privilege is. Race is not the assumption of self-importance. Race is the recognition how human beings are regarded and treated differently based upon nothing other than the color of their skin. All you've done is selfishly indulge your blinkered fantasy that race is an artificial construct without relevance. Neither history or reality lend any meaning to that dogmatic delusion. But fear not. This is not entirely your fault. You are a victim of both your privilege and your socialization. But it does not follow that AOC or any person of color has to defer to or cater to your blind spots. Something is seriously wrong with any White man who says a focus on race by a Brown woman or a Black man is "self-importance." That is a whole other level of arrogant presumption and clueless privilege, but I'm focused on my business, so I give zero fucks about trying to understand how a grown-ass man gets that way. You obviously have a lot of fucks to give, otherwise you wouldn't be responding to any of this with such vigor. But in my view--which of course is meaningless, since I'm not a POC--you'e simply wrong. See, I don't think any and all focus on race is about self-importance, I think your specific focus on race when it comes to Ocasio-Cortez (that you so enjoy because you imagine it's about someone of color pissing off people who are of non-color) is a consequence of such an assumption of self-importance. Somehow, you see it as a feather in your cap that Ocasio-Cortez is a person of color, just as many white people imagine that the color of, say, George Washington's skin is a feather in their cap. Your attempt to assume the "champion of women" mantle is amusing. Regardless, look back through this thread. You have proven yourself unwilling to allow that Ocasio-Cortez has been wrong about anything. And anyone who does suggest that's she'd been wrong is immediately attacked by you for their sin. Disagree, it's exactly your argument when you say something like this: As if it were a rebuttal to me noting that she thinks stupid things. You're very clearly arguing that it doesn't matter if what she says is stupid/wrong, as long as saying such things add to her popularity/influence. Again, Trump.
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Post by Don on Mar 12, 2019 18:50:58 GMT -5
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Post by mikey on Mar 12, 2019 19:18:40 GMT -5
The Dems biggest regret is that they only have two feet to shoot.
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Post by Optimus on Mar 12, 2019 22:54:59 GMT -5
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Post by Don on Mar 13, 2019 6:44:39 GMT -5
Did you check out the "all the world's a stage" post on the previous page? Manchurian AOC is accurate. Her brother nominated her to become a candidate, it wasn't even her idea. They're not seeking capable candidates, they're auditioning actors, and providing everything else. It's not "AOC's GND" as we've heard it so often. It's a creation of the Justice Democrats, just as she is a creation of the Justice Democrats. It's all laid out on the JD site in detail. Their video, " Before Alexandria Was Known As AOC, There Was A Movement That Recruited Her To Run" pretty much gives the whole scheme away. She's essentially a spokesmodel, and as you note, when she forgets her lines and starts ad-libbing, she runs right off the rails. I'm guessing the JDs will have a new spokesmodel by the time they introduce GND II. Oh, and as for who's in charge of the JDs? Only one line on their website. I'd bet a year's pay that's also a less than transparent statement. There are lots more Bernie Bros lurking in the background.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 15, 2019 9:49:16 GMT -5
I want to like her. I want to hold out hope for her. But every time I get close to, she does some more stupid shit like this. There seem to be 2 Ocasio-Cortezes; the perfectly polished, seemingly informed one who asks incisive questions, a persona that I'm betting is 100% the creation of her democratic handlers; and the egregiously misinformed/uninformed, fuck up who can't help but continually trip over her own two feet. We need more of the (obviously) artificially constructed, pre-programmed Manchurian Ocasio-Cortez and much less of the (apparently real) village idiot Ocasio-Cortez. Did you check out the "all the world's a stage" post on the previous page? Manchurian AOC is accurate. Her brother nominated her to become a candidate, it wasn't even her idea. They're not seeking capable candidates, they're auditioning actors, and providing everything else. It's not "AOC's GND" as we've heard it so often. It's a creation of the Justice Democrats, just as she is a creation of the Justice Democrats. It's all laid out on the JD site in detail. Their video, " Before Alexandria Was Known As AOC, There Was A Movement That Recruited Her To Run" pretty much gives the whole scheme away. She's essentially a spokesmodel, and as you note, when she forgets her lines and starts ad-libbing, she runs right off the rails. I'm guessing the JDs will have a new spokesmodel by the time they introduce GND II. Oh, and as for who's in charge of the JDs? Only one line on their website. I'd bet a year's pay that's also a less than transparent statement. There are lots more Bernie Bros lurking in the background.
Ermigawd! AOC was recruited to run for Congress by a bunch of Lefties! She didn't want to, but her brother put her up to it! She's a front and a phony. She's a clueless pretty face with an empty head. Ermigawd! Recall her now!
Here ya go, Right-Wingers. Have a nice big cup of Shut the Entire Fuck Up. That video was released by the Justice Democrats and like most grassroots organizing groups, they chose to search for candidates who shared their political vision to run for office. Maybe you've never run for anything but the bus, Don, but this is how activists turn their dreams into action and its the same way the Marines do it: they look for recruits.
It's cute how you see dark conspiracies afoot, Don, but you're smoking some bad shit. There's nothing remotely sinister or conspiratorial about the Justice Democrats seeking like-minded souls to run for elected office. What's more democratic than citizens gathering together to bring to pass changes they want, but their current politicians pay no attention to? You got a problem with that?
You'd like to be able to dismiss AOC as nothing more than a fake, a fraud and a front for her Justice Democrats masters, but there's no meat on that bone. Keep gnawing though. The gristle is good for ya.
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Post by Don on Mar 15, 2019 9:56:34 GMT -5
When AOC starts speaking off-the-cuff without sounding like an entirely different person, I'll revisit the spokesmodel statement. For now, I've seen no evidence that she's pulling her own strings. If you can't see the difference between the two versions AOC presents to the public, you're not looking very hard. If you see it and deny it for partisan purposes, well, that's your issue, not mine.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 15, 2019 10:47:39 GMT -5
When AOC starts speaking off-the-cuff without sounding like an entirely different person, I'll revisit the spokesmodel statement. For now, I've seen no evidence that she's pulling her own strings. If you can't see the difference between the two versions AOC presents to the public, you're not looking very hard. If you see it and deny it for partisan purposes, well, that's your issue, not mine. Oh, so if I don't see the strings on the puppet, I'm not looking very hard?
If we were going to barbecue every Congresscritter who can't conjugate a verb when there's no teleprompter handy, we are going to grilling a lotta meat. For some reason, you haven't been nearly as ready to jump down the throat of a racist shitheel like Steve King when he spews his bigotry all over the floors of the House. Funny thing that. It almost seems...inconsistent.
Your suspicions are proof of nothing. You are trying to conflate a 29-year-old, first-time politician cast into the national spotlight who occasionally misspeaks, into some sort of sleeper agent trying to convert America to socialism, satanism and cannibalism. I think you're the one who's having vision problems. You're the one not seeing this is all a fucking hit job from the Right.
I am looking at how AOC moves through the world and I see the shaky moments when she's off-script, but when everyone has a camera and a mic is following you day and night, this is to be expected. However AOC receives ZERO slack from her detractors on the Right and the Left. They demand a perfection from her they lack in themselves.
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Post by Vince524 on Mar 15, 2019 11:40:26 GMT -5
I don't see the puppet angle myself. She's young, has some idea that are popular with younger people that just won't work. She's a politician, so yeah, there are ppl who donate $ and lobbyists and such. She may or may not be a 'puppet' to them, but I don't see a reason to think she's any more of one than anyone else. She's got charm, and an infectious personality, and that dance video being attacked by a few trolls, she managed to spin that as if the entire republican party was out for her blood. That seems about it.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 27, 2019 10:54:12 GMT -5
"If you’re a rich liberal from maybe New York or California, it sounds great because you can afford to retrofit your home or build a new home that has zero emissions, that’s energy efficient.”
Duffy brought smoke. AOC returned fire.
When's the memorial service for the late Representative Duffy because his life is OVER.
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Post by Don on Mar 27, 2019 11:51:56 GMT -5
She sure nailed it with the last couple sentences.
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