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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2018 12:27:03 GMT -5
Haha! I thought about coming here to say the same thing yesterday. Crickets indeed.... To be fair, though, at least the caravan crisis has been resolved.
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Post by prozyan on Nov 9, 2018 13:10:38 GMT -5
To be fair, we did spend an entire day analyzing a stupid video from Sarah Sanders and arguing about dumb conspiracy theories.
Lucy moved the football and we fell for it....again.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2018 13:18:22 GMT -5
I actually do think it matters that Trump is using sleazy maneuvers to ban reporters he doesn't like.
But. I agree that it was a (successful) ploy to distract the nation. And yes, there we all went.
The thing is, there are so many things to get upset about, it's almost impossible to even keep track. And Trump just creating more explosions.
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Post by markesq on Nov 17, 2018 17:34:52 GMT -5
How about now? You know, now that the CIA has concluded MBS was behind this? Hmmm? Oh, wait: 'the US president again stressed Saudi Arabia was a "great ally" and that he had to "take a lot of things into consideration.'" www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-46250301
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Post by markesq on Nov 19, 2018 13:23:22 GMT -5
Trump refused to listen to the tape of the murder. This may surprise some, but I don't necessarily fault him for that. Unfortunately, now cops have body cams, I have had to view half a dozen deaths as they happened, a 17yo girl today. It's upsetting and I would never require someone to watch (or hear) a death taking place unless it's necessary. I do fault him, however, for his inaction thus far. Even Republican senator Lindsey Graham said on NBC’s Meet the Press on Sunday morning: “If [Mohammed bin Salman] is going to be the face and the voice of Saudi Arabia going forward, the kingdom will have a hard time on the world stage … when it comes to the crown prince, he’s irrational, he’s unhinged, and I think he’s done a lot of damage to the relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia. And I have no intention of working with him ever again.” Now, I have no faith that Graham has the spine to make his words mean anything, but it's more than Trump has done. So, Tuesday he gets his briefing. No doubt by the end of the day he will have taken stern measures against those responsible. Right?
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Post by celawson on Nov 19, 2018 16:40:33 GMT -5
From Mark: “So, Tuesday he gets his briefing. No doubt by the end of the day he will have taken stern measures against those responsible. Right?”
Yes. Maybe not by the end of the day, but In addition to the cancellation of visas, and the monetary sanctions against most of those involved, the Trump Admin will ensure there are further repercussions to Saudi Arabia and MBS, keeping in mind the balance of power in the ME, and the danger of Iran, and the issue of Israel. The U.S. isn’t going to throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak, but I do sincerely think there will be more repercussions. Will they be enough for Trump critics who will never be happy or satisfied with anything Trump does? No, of course not. But I do not believe the U.S. will just let this go.
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Post by Amadan on Nov 19, 2018 17:00:55 GMT -5
From Mark: “So, Tuesday he gets his briefing. No doubt by the end of the day he will have taken stern measures against those responsible. Right?” Yes. Maybe not by the end of the day, but In addition to the cancellation of visas, and the monetary sanctions against most of those involved, the Trump Admin will ensure there are further repercussions to Saudi Arabia and MBS, keeping in mind the balance of power in the ME, and the danger of Iran, and the issue of Israel. The U.S. isn’t going to throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak, but I do sincerely think there will be more repercussions. Will they be enough for Trump critics who will never be happy or satisfied with anything Trump does? No, of course not. But I do not believe the U.S. will just let this go. That's a very vague and highly qualified assertion, that sounds like if Trump so much as wags his finger in their direction, you can say he "did something."
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Post by celawson on Nov 19, 2018 19:59:37 GMT -5
Well, he’s already done a couple of things that are more than finger wagging, and I stil think there will and should be more, so no, that doesn’t really compute with my opinion and thoughts thus far, Amadan .
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Post by Amadan on Nov 20, 2018 9:40:40 GMT -5
Well, he’s already done a couple of things that are more than finger wagging, and I stil think there will and should be more, so no, that doesn’t really compute with my opinion and thoughts thus far, Amadan . No, he hasn't, and no, he won't.
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Post by robeiae on Nov 20, 2018 10:09:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think he's done anything substantive and I don't think he ultimately ever will.
In my mind, however, that just indicates that Trump is out of his depth in this arena. If he had come out publicly against the Saudis, condemned the murder from the get-go, and issued a series of really stern warnings, he would have looked a lot better, even if nothing significant was done to punish the Saudis at the end of the day, apart from some less-than-crushing sanctions or the like. If he had taken this route, he would have at least looked "presidential."
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Post by markesq on Nov 20, 2018 10:51:13 GMT -5
As opposed to "idiotic," which is where this is headed. His way to avoid doing anything is to disagree with his own intelligence service. Which makes sense, I suppose, given the traditional distance between Trump and intelligence.
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Post by celawson on Nov 20, 2018 12:54:36 GMT -5
I agree he's out of his depth here. (What person new to politics wouldn't be? This is really complicated.) And I agree he could have handled things better in the beginning - he's too impulsive with his rhetoric. But I still think his administration (and pressure from Congress) will help him come to a more appropriate response. I suppose we will find out soon.
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Post by Amadan on Nov 20, 2018 13:08:56 GMT -5
I agree he's out of his depth here. (What person new to politics wouldn't be? This is really complicated.) "This is really complicated." That's what we elect Presidents to deal with. Trump is not new to politics. This is his first elected office, but he ran in large part on supposedly being such a tough negotiator and a smart guy. You really are reaching for the most desperate defenses you can find. Bet?
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Post by markesq on Nov 20, 2018 14:58:01 GMT -5
Well, celawson, apparently you you are squarely wrong, and I was right (as was Amadan and Cass): Trump has spoken. Trump defends Saudi Arabia ties despite Khashoggi murder. His statement, annotated by the Washington Post. Now what happens? Either, having been so sure he'd take action, you pivot and say, "Actually this is the right way to go." Or you admit that Trump is an amoral coward.
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Post by Amadan on Nov 20, 2018 15:03:20 GMT -5
No, no, it's very complicated. Trump is acknowledging that. ("Maybe he did, and maybe he didn't.")
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