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Post by markesq on Jan 17, 2019 9:36:16 GMT -5
Frankly, I'm stunned at the lack of empathy here for people who have been horribly deprived of their earnings. I can't see anything wrong with folks needing to pay the rent and feed their families crowd-sourcing that income. Agree with everything Cass has said, while some of the other callous, indifferent, privileged horse-shit made me snort with derision.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 10:11:43 GMT -5
Frankly, I'm stunned at the lack of empathy here for people who have been horribly deprived of their earnings. I can't see anything wrong with folks needing to pay the rent and feed their families crowd-sourcing that income. Agree with everything Cass has said, while some of the other callous, indifferent, privileged horse-shit made me snort with derision. This is why we are friends.
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Post by mikey on Jan 17, 2019 11:28:25 GMT -5
Funally enough, one of the lady relatives I was telling you about earlier who lives in a two family two bedroom apt also has a gym membership. She uses hers to shit and shower away from the crowded household members. She also saves money from her job.
Edit; saves by only paying a portion of the monthly bills of the apt.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 11:36:17 GMT -5
So perhaps my friend should bring another family into his one 12 x 16 room? (Not even sure that's legal, actually. In fact, I'm pretty sure it isn't -- my lease would forbid it. The days of tenements are over -- you are only legally allowed to have so many people in a space these days.) He's actually got a pretty damn good rent deal. Presuming he, like your friend, shared a two bedroom apartment with another family, your average modest two bedroom apartment in NYC is $3789 ny.curbed.com/2018/7/30/17630428/nyc-rent-prices-two-bedroom-apartments-annual-income-needed . He and his son would still be living in one room, and he'd be paying about the same. (I doubt he'd save on utilities; here in NYC, it's typically not a huge part of your expenses. I shared with a roommate long ago and my electric bill actually dropped when I lived by myself in a smaller place.) Sure, my friend could save money by not eating. He could perhaps save $116 a month by walking 5 miles each way to work every day. Or he could cut the electric bill and phone, living in darkness and making calls from work. I mean, we've already eliminated luxuries like medical insurance and medical expenses. Do break down your friend's budget for me and show me how she saves money on her budget. I went to some effort to break down my friend's. My friend can't afford a gym membership -- apparently yours can. Just how much is she saving? What would happen if she went without income for a month? Three months? Give my friend some helpful tips on saving money on the budget I outlined. Say! Let's have further fun! My friend actually makes more than the median individual income. Let's put him in NYC with the median income of $31,000 ish! What if we give him another kid, just for fun! Let's watch him save the big bucks! Apropos of miscellaneous expenses, here's a fun fact on NYC life -- typically only the well off have laundry in their apartment, and often not then. I do not in fact have a washing machine/dryer in my place. You have to pay to do it. Assuming you do it yourself, we're talking $5-7 a load, not counting detergent. Even assuming the cheapest price, I don't see how two people get by on fewer than two loads of laundry a week. So let's not forget he's spending a good $50 to do laundry, at least. Let's hope he doesn't need to get stuff dry cleaned. You scoff at my mentioning that? Check your fucking privilege. When you live paycheck to paycheck, that shit adds up. I can remember trying to scrape for enough to do laundry in my years between college and law school, in my days of five roommates...if you don't, it's YOU who has never been poor.) I join wholeheartedly in Mark's snort of derision at the utter lack of compassion, thought, and comprehension in this thread.
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Post by mikey on Jan 17, 2019 12:03:59 GMT -5
At first blush, my number one tip would be "move the fuck out of that New York hell hole"! Everything else will likely just fall into place after that.
It's amazing to me how for years and years the whole construction industries have thrived despite the constant lay-offs of workers until another job can be started. These workers have homes and families and such, yet thrive despite the occasional lay-off between jobs. Awesome. Kinda like farmers do year after year.
Gotta love snowflakes
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Post by markesq on Jan 17, 2019 12:09:32 GMT -5
At first blush, my number one tip would be "move the fuck out of that New York hell hole"! Everything else will likely just fall into place after that. It's amazing to me how for years and years the whole construction industries have thrived despite the constant lay-offs of workers until another job can be started. These workers have homes and families and such, yet thrive despite the occasional lay-off between jobs. Awesome. Kinda like farmers do year after year. Gotta love snowflakes If having compassion for other people makes me a snowflake, then I'd be proud to be a blizzard.
And seriously, move? LOL.
"Hey, can't afford to eat or pay rent, you should move outta NYC!" "Oh, okay. Moving is free, right? 'Cos I don't have any money, see..." ...
*crickets
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 12:10:14 GMT -5
Right. Because people living paycheck to paycheck only live in New York.
I'm giving an example of someone I personally know now, with whose circumstances I am familiar, and who in fact makes well over the federal poverty threshold. As I said, I'VE been in this position -- and I wasn't living in New York. And I've known others -- still do -- in places like Buffalo, where I'm from. My cousin, who lives in a trailer outside Buffalo. An old high school friend who still lives in the Buffalo area, who got out of college and struggled to find a decent job there. Heh -- people advised her "move to someplace like NYC, where the jobs are!" Of course, she didn't have money to move... She found a job at last, but she's still paycheck to paycheck. I don't think she's paid off her college loans entirely, because she can't make more than the minimum payment. So the interest keeps adding up.
Gotta love selfish, callous ignoramuses.
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Post by mikey on Jan 17, 2019 12:34:46 GMT -5
Are you two really supporting the pay check to pay check lifestyle? That's just weird.
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Post by celawson on Jan 17, 2019 12:39:27 GMT -5
I do feel for the federal workers who aren't getting paid. And I wish there was a way all the lazy and wealthy congress and executive branch people could pool some of their own extra money and give it to these people.
However,
I don't think it's callous to say it's likely true that a majority of Americans do not manage their money wisely. They don't have a rainy day fund, and they don't plan sufficiently for retirement, and they live beyond their means on credit, and they buy too much stuff that they don't need. That's simply a fact. And I do wonder when I see people in a poorer demographic with the artificial nails (I haven't gotten a professional manicure since my wedding day), and the fancy iphones, and expensive sneakers, drinking Starbucks, etc.
I think high school should offer a mandatory money management class. Because if the parents aren't doing it, how can the kids learn how to?
My grandmother, (who immigrated here legally from Mexico in her 20s) married a railroad worker (who immigrated here legally from Italy in his 30s), lived in the East Los Angeles barrio until her death, managed to save $80k in cash, which my mom and aunt found in a hidden compartment when they were cleaning out her home after she died. She raised 3 kids, and was a widow when my mom was in her early 20s). She managed to save on very little income. It can be done.
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Post by Don on Jan 17, 2019 12:40:21 GMT -5
I could have chosen to live hand-to-mouth in either NYC or London at various stages in my career. I also had an opportunity to live like a king in Boca Raton. Thankfully I made better choices. The Boca company folded in less than a year, and while London may have turned out well, the NYC position would have been a dead-end, it turns out.
But like I said above, "I know that some places are more expensive to live than others, and have chosen to live in places where I could afford to live comfortably."
Any financial advisor will point out that spending more than half one's income on housing is simply untenable in the long run. What one wants and what one can realistically afford are not always the same thing. It sounds like your friend should be commuting from fairly far away. It sucks, sure, but so does being broke all the time.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 13:00:16 GMT -5
NO ONE IN THE THREAD SAYS YOU SHOULDN'T SAVE IF YOU POSSIBLY CAN AND MANAGE YOUR MONEY WISELY. NOT ME, NOT MARK. NO ONE.
THE POINT IS THAT MANY PEOPLE DO NOT EARN ENOUGH MONEY TO DO MORE THAN COVER THEIR BILLS. THIS APPLIES TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.
THEY ARE NOT ALL LIVING IN EXPENSIVE CITIES. I NEED TO DO SOME FUCKING WORK SO I'LL GIVE A CITE LATER, BUT I'VE READ THAT A SHITLOAD OF POVERTY IS ACTUALLY IN RURAL DISTRICTS. TO REPEAT: WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING PEOPLE IN NYC. MY EXAMPLE IS IN NYC. THAT IS NOT TO IMPLY THAT ONLY PEOPLE HERE ARE IN THAT POSITION. SHALL I REPEAT IT IN SOME OTHER WAY, TO MAKE THIS POINT CLEAR?
LOTS OF PEOPLE ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY ARE LIVING PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK WITHOUT SPENDING MONEY ON WHORES AND DRUGS. WHEN AN EMERGENCY COMES UP, LIKE AN UNEXPECTED MONTH OR THREE WHEN THEIR EMPLOYER DECIDES NOT TO PAY THEM OR SOME MEDICAL EMERGENCY, THEY ARE IN DIRE FUCKING TROUBLE. AS I NOTED ABOVE, MORE THAN TWO THIRDS OF THE COUNTRY HAS ZERO TO A ONLY COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS IN SAVINGS. REALLY, YOU THINK THEY ARE ALL JUST SHITTY MONEY MANAGERS LOL?
IF YOU CANNOT IMAGINE THIS AND ARE DENYING SOMETHING THAT IS SIMPLY A FUCKING FACT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY TO YOU.
IF YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THIS SITUATION, CONGRATULATIONS, BUT BE AWARE THAT YOU ARE IN A FUCKING VERY PRIVILEGED MINORITY IN THIS COUNTRY. YOU ARE THE 1%, OR AT LEAST, THE TOP 15%, IF YOU ARE COUNTING ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE 10K SAVED. CONGRATUFUCKINGLATIONS. BUT REALLY, YOU THINK YOU CAN DISMISS ALL THE REST OF THE 85% AS "POOR MONEY MANAGERS?"
SORRY FOR YELLING, BUT ... WAIT, NO, I'M NOT AT ALL SORRY FOR YELLING BECAUSE SOME OF YOU DON'T SEEM TO GET IT.
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Post by celawson on Jan 17, 2019 13:05:02 GMT -5
YES I THINK PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY IN SAVINGS ARE "SHITTY MONEY MANAGERS LOL". THERE IS ALWAYS ROOM TO SAVE. ALWAYS.
DID YOU NOT SEE MY EXAMPLE OF MY POOR GRANDMOTHER?
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Post by prozyan on Jan 17, 2019 13:06:24 GMT -5
AS I NOTED ABOVE, MORE THAN TWO THIRDS OF THE COUNTRY HAS ZERO TO A ONLY COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS IN SAVINGS. REALLY, YOU THINK THEY ARE ALL JUST SHITTY MONEY MANAGERS Only addressing this point.... Yes, I believe that the vast, vast majority of Americans are incredibly shitty money managers. ETA: I've actually thought about this a lot the past day or two after I read the attached article on CNN: www.cnn.com/2019/01/15/opinions/shutdown-usda-loans-locking-me-out-of-the-american-dream-venable/index.htmlNow while the opinion piece attempts to show yet another way the shutdown impacts daily lives the takeaway I got from it is this....This young lady, who makes $42k a year, wants to buy a 2-story, 3 bedroom house, claiming it is somehow the great American dream. Now if that isn't the definition of irresponsible money management and poor investing I don't know what is. Sure, maybe she can make the payments each month. But she won't have much left. She is setting herself up for financial failure at some point down the road. And we wonder why most people have little to no savings. Yes, I have problems with the person that claims they cannot save anything yet walks around with an iPhone X and airpods or Beats headphones. Yes, I have problems with the person that claims they cannot save anything yet has a $50k vehicle on lease. Yes, I have problems with the person that claims they cannot save anything yet buys new clothes each paycheck. And yes, I have problems with the person that claims they cannot save anything yet took out 200k in student loans to earn a degree to get a job that will earn $35k a year. If that makes me un-empathetic and ignorant, so be it. Personally, I blame the education system that does very, very little to prepare students for life. My 14 year old daughter can do binomial equations in her sleep. But she can't balance a checkbook, set a budget, or understand why a credit card that offers 0 interst for 6 months, then jumps to a 29.99% APR after is a bad thing. I wonder which knowledge will end up serving her better in life?
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Post by celawson on Jan 17, 2019 13:09:41 GMT -5
The answer to this is not to yell. Or to blame capitalism. The answer is to get an education, get married before you have kids, work hard, and save some of your paycheck. It's a really simple formula.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 13:24:32 GMT -5
Sigh.
Not one disputes that many people are shitty money managers. That does not mean that everyone who has no or little savings is. Seriously, you guys really think this? As privileged as I am, I know and have known many people for whom this isn't true.
Plenty of people in this situation DID get an education. Their loans help weigh them down.
Plenty of people in this situation don't have kids at all or waited. My friend in Buffalo? My cousin in the trailer? Neither has children.
You guys know some people who save a bit on a small income? Swell! I do too. And I also know people who I genuinely can't see how they'd save. I cited one above. Do go into his budget and explain where he can save. You can't, unless you assume he doesn't need clothes, stuff for his kid, etc.
Apparently you all live in a happy, happy world where well-paying jobs ample to allow people to save are available to all who want them! If your employer doesn't pay you for a few months, you can waltz out your door and into the temporary job just waiting for you! Everyone has family and friends with plenty of resources to help! So if you are in financial trouble, LOL! It's your fault for being a lazy spendthrift!
Do let me know where that world is. I'd love to live there. Actually, I think it might be Scandinavia--will have to check with Max. But it sure as fuck ain't America.
I'm honestly grossed out by the privilege and lack of awareness and empathy in this thread. I'm signing off and doing some work. Have fun.
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