Teens in MAGA hats gang up on and harass innocent N.A. man.. Jan 23, 2019 16:30:23 GMT -5
Post by robeiae on Jan 23, 2019 16:30:23 GMT -5
A group of 100 black teens from a Bronx public school goes down to a Kentucky Black Lives Matters protest wearing Antifa t-shirts. While there, 5 Westboro Baptists are screaming their usual crazy shit at everyone. [FYI for those who didn't watch all the tapes, one thing the tapes make clear is that as usual, the Black Israelites group was yelling abuse at everyone who stood still long enough, including the Native American group. They are like the Westboro Baptists in that regard.] This includes a nearby Evangelical group holding an enthusiastic pro-life rally, in which they bang drums, sing loud hymns praising Jesus, and shout about how Jesus loves unborn babies, but do not yell any abuse at the black teens. The Evangelical group is led by an elderly pastor, who may or may not have been deployed to Vietnam, but who did serve in the Marine Corp. for several years during the Vietnam era. (To the extent his military history is even relevant, really, since no one would know about it who was there at the time. However, take as read that he is obviously elderly.) The Westboro Baptists have plenty of nasty names for the Evangelical group, too. It is clear that the Westboro Baptists and Evangelicals are not together or doing the same thing.
The 100 black teens surround the 5 Westboro Baptists, listening to their screeching, eventually, when the Westboro Baptists aim some ugly their way (as they will if you stand around listening long enough), start to interact with them. When the Westboro Baptists yell "You're all niggers -- no crackers among you" The black teens pull out the one white teen with them and yell "We have a cracker! We have another cracker at our school, too, but he didn't come today." Things escalate. The chaperones are down the block at a bus stop, drinking coffee. Or maybe they're right there. In any case, they do not step in.
The Evangelical group sees things escalating between the Westboro Baptists and the black teens. Because they're all about Jesus's peace, they step between the two groups (remember, the Westboro Baptists had been yelling abuse at them, too), banging their drums and singing about Jesus and love, with the goal of stopping the escalation between the teens and the WB group. The WB group recognizes that this is the goal of the Evangelical pastor, yelling "oh, here comes Daddy." (If you don't know what I'm talking about here, you didn't watch the videos.)
The black teens begin to jeer and mock the Evangelical group, surrounding them singing mocking chants about Christians.
The Evangelical group intends to march through the group of kids and to the top of a set of steps, to broadcast their message more broadly and dominate over the melee the WB group is having with the teens. Many of the black teens let them pass, but the group eventually gets to one black teen who stands in front of the pastor, grinning. The other black teens yell "yeah! ha! you can't move him!" while continuing their mocking chants about Jesus and making the sign of the cross in a derisive way.
Let us assume that Fox News released a 3-minute clip leaving out the WB group, showing only the Black teens jeering the elderly evangelical pastor. Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson scream about Antifa and black teens being disrespectful animals and how Christianity is under fire. (Are you seriously telling me this wouldn't happen?)
Later, a longer clip emerged showing the earlier interactions with the WB group. Also, video emerged showing the black teens being rowdy and obnoxious at other points during the field trip.
(1) I asked this before. Does what the WB group did excuse the way the black teens acted towards the Evangelical pastor and his group? (I say no.)
(2) Would the right wing media and Trump supporters, once the longer tape came out, be saying "oh, the black teens were totally justified. We really misjudged this situation." (Oh fucking come on. NO, they would not. It's only the left that plays right into the MAGA handbook this way -- the right never does. Even if tape came out showing that the Evangelicals themselves had been nasty to the kids, they'd trash the black teens until the end of time. And OMG, if you don't think Fox News, Brietbart, the Federalist, etc. would have been showing the clip of the black teens until the end of time...if you don't think the WSJ and National Review wouldn't have been using it to bemoan the lack of "civility" by the left, and the bias against Christianity, I don't know where you've been living the last few years.)
(3) Would President Trump -- or President Obama -- be inviting the black teens to the White House? (Oh, fucking please.) Would the Today Show have the kids on as guests. (Under this fact pattern? No. Maybe if the police had stepped in with tear gas or beaten some of the kids up.)
(4) Would c.e.lawson and Vince be saying "oh, those poor black teens were totally justified in what they were doing with the Evangelical group. The right-wing media is so unfair!" Would Vince be defending the chaperones? (They can speak for themselves, but my bet is no. I also am betting that the WB abuse would not be justification for the teens' behavior because "everyone knows the WB are assholes; that had nothing to do with the Evangelist group.")
(5) If HuffPo and Daily Kos later reported that while Fox News had initially reported that the Evangelical Minister was a Vietnam vet, in fact the Evangelical pastor merely served for 4 years in the Marine Corp. during the Vietnam era, would Vince be jumping on this as something that exonerates the black teens? (See parenthetical above. Seriously, what possible difference does this make to the fact pattern? The kids wouldn't know shit about his military service. They would be able to see that he was elderly, and that he hadn't been yelling names at them.)
(6) Here's one for you: Under this fact pattern, do you think *I*would be arguing that the black teens were angels and totally justified in their behavior to the evangelical group?
If your answer to the last is "yes," fuck you, you're wrong. I'd be saying exactly what Prozyan and I agreed on above: that yes, the media had made too much of it, but yes, the teens were jerks and not justified in their behavior to the Evangelical group just because the WB group were asshats. And if the left-wing media and the Obama White House tried to make heroes out of the black teens for their behavior to the Evangelical group, I'd be pretty fucking exasperated. If you think otherwise, you haven't paid attention to my posts over the last several years most of you have known me.
Changing the nature of the various parties involved doesn't impact my position(s) at all. If anything, in your hypothetical I'd have more sympathy for the teens (as opposed to the Covington teens) because "nigger" is a lot more of a loaded term than "cracker."
And sure, talking heads and partisan people/sources would--by and large--flip their scripts completely. But then, I never thought of this so much as a left/right issue as I did a social media "outrage" issue. Both sides have done this same sort of thing before and will continue to do into the future, as long as enough sheeple on twitter and FB eat such stuff up, like it, and repost it.
IMO, here and in my fact pattern, what we have are inadequately chaperoned teens who behaved badly to a group during a field trip. It's not the end of the world, but they sure as hell are not innocent victims, and fuck no, they aren't heroes.
Sure.But in both scenarios, the other groups are equal players in my view and are composed entirely of adults. You are--in my view--assuming givens which I don't think should be assumed. I doubt most people know a thing about the Hebrew Israelites. I've never encountered them. And regardless, they shouldn't get what amounts to a full pass for their bullshit simply because they're wackadoos. Ditto for the WB. They should be held accountable for their words/actions to the same degree as everyone else. But that didn't happen. The vid that went viral--and all of dogpiling outrage--was all about the kids, as if they were the only ones who did something worthy of criticism. You're also assuming that the actions and purposes thereof of the Evangelical group (and by extension the Native American group) should have been recognized by the black teens immediately, and that they should have thereof respected this out of hand. I think that's unfair, particularly in your scenario, as a group of black teens who are being called "nigger" by a bunch of white "Christians" can hardly be expected to make a path for another bunch of white "Christians" who want to walk through them. Which again is another reason why--in your scenario--I'd have more sympathy for the teens. Really, I think you would, too.
To also be clear here -- if a shit-ton of people were not trying to argue that the kids were totes justified in their behavior, that it wasn't problematic, and ffs, trying to make right-wing heroes out of them -- if all that were happening is people demonizing them -- I'd be entirely on team "sure, this was bad, unjustified behavior by the teens, but ffs, they are teens, and they were inadequately chaperoned -- give them a teaching moment about respecting elders, racism, ignoring and walking away from extremist groups screeching on street corners, etc., and let's all fucking move on. Then I'd throw focus my ire on the people sending death threats.
But I can't jump on board with any point of view that doesn't have "yeah, that behavior was in fact bad behavior" as a central premise. And I have yuuuuuge problems with affimatively trying to argue that the kids were justified in it, or downright heroes. When they're being rewarded with trips to the White House, I just can't fucking even any more.
The flip side: if this hadn't all started with the widespread and public attempt to humiliate the teens alone, along with the threats and calls to dox them, all based on an incomplete video, I don't think there'd be any need to defend them or otherwise add context to the story, as it would never have been a story, since again nothing all that significant actually happened.
True, it continues to be a story partly because there are people presenting the teens as "heroes" (which I think is ridiculous). But it also continues to be a story because a lot of the people who jumped on the initial outrage train refuse to allow that maybe they overreacted and in many cases are--in fact--doubling down on their outrage by expanding it to cover other incidents--some real, some not--involving the school.