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Post by markesq on Feb 27, 2019 8:50:08 GMT -5
Unless Trumps punches KJU in the face or announces they're getting married, Cohen's testimony today should dominate the headlines. I suspect the reaction to whatever he says will fall along party lines, here as elsewhere, so I'm more interested in the documents he brings to back up his testimony than the words themselves.
Do you guys think his testimony should be written off as the words of a proven liar? If so, what does he have to gain by potentially perjuring himself (again!) in front of Congress. He knows that doesn't work out well, so why would he? Also, what does he have to gain from lying about the president?
It does strike me that pretty much anything he says, no matter how bad, will inflate the headlines for a day (maybe two) then disappear. This president has been accused of so many nefarious acts, and his supporters have played down the very worst of them, that I can't see his testimony having much of an effect any which way. Pity, really.
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Post by celawson on Feb 27, 2019 11:07:30 GMT -5
Jordan is WRECKING him right now.
EDIT: and then he went off the rails.
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Post by nighttimer on Feb 27, 2019 11:46:02 GMT -5
Jim Jordan needs a chill pill. And a jacket. The shirtsleeves look is SO tacky.
So is this:
On Tuesday, Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz sent the following tweet to Donald Trump’s former fixer Michael Cohen:
Hey @michaelcohen212 - Do your wife & father-in-law know about your girlfriends? Maybe tonight would be a good time for that chat. I wonder if she’ll remain faithful when you’re in prison. She’s about to learn a lot... — Matt Gaetz (@mattgaetz) February 26, 2019
Mercy me and Glory be. Was that a threat? Law professors say "Hell yes!"
Here’s Ryan Goodman of NYU:
Ryan Goodman ✔ @rgoodlaw
Hey @mattgaetz - Does your personal attorney know you’ve just engaged, very clearly, in the crime of witness tampering? Maybe tonight would be a good time for that chat. … 3,168 4:44 PM - Feb 26, 2019
@steve_vladeck
Hey @mattgaetz:
Do you know about 18 U.S.C. § 1512(b), which prohibits tampering with witnesses to official proceedings?:https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1512 … … 1,126 4:48 PM - Feb 26, 2019
Rick Hasen ✔ @rickhasen
Not a joke----and I don't think that such comments on Twitter would be protected by legislative immunity even if they could be privileged if uttered on the House floor. Anthony Michael Kreis ✔ @anthonymkreis
Does the Speech and Debate Clause apply to Twitter? Asking for a Florida Congressman.
Laurence Tribe ✔ @tribelaw
.@mattgaetz is a disgusting excuse for a human being. He’s also engaged in criminal witness tampering in plain sight. No immunity is available. He deserves to be indicted, and of course needs to be kicked out of Congress. 29.2K 5:00 PM - Feb 26, 2019
Rethuglicans like Jordan and Gaetz gonna thug for their capo di tutti capi. They should sleep with the fishes.
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Post by celawson on Feb 27, 2019 12:14:46 GMT -5
Yeah, Gaetz is a hothead, and that Tweet seems to have crossed a serious line. I say "seems" because I'm not a lawyer. This hearing is a shit show from both sides.
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Post by nighttimer on Feb 27, 2019 12:32:42 GMT -5
.
What a sweetheart of a guy!
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Post by markesq on Feb 27, 2019 12:39:23 GMT -5
Interesting, they (Rs) don't really seem to be able to challenge any of the factual assertions Cohen is making. I can see why they'd attack his credibility, of course, I'd do the same thing and have a blast doing it, but the repubs are all asking the same questions over and over. I guess it all comes down to whether you choose to believe him or not, which makes it unlikely today will change a single person's mind.
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Post by celawson on Feb 27, 2019 12:50:11 GMT -5
Which of the factual assertions are you referring to? That Trump made racist comments in private with Cohen? That Trump said Don Jr. has bad judgement, in privacy with Cohen? That Don Jr whispered something about a meeting to Trump?
This is like kindergartners calling each other names. And it's so clearly about Cohen getting revenge. But for Congress to take this seriously, it's actually silly.
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Post by celawson on Feb 27, 2019 12:57:35 GMT -5
Wow, maybe Jordan didn't go as far off the rails as I suspected:
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Post by markesq on Feb 27, 2019 14:05:18 GMT -5
Which of the factual assertions are you referring to? That Trump made racist comments in private with Cohen? That Trump said Don Jr. has bad judgement, in privacy with Cohen? That Don Jr whispered something about a meeting to Trump? This is like kindergartners calling each other names. And it's so clearly about Cohen getting revenge. But for Congress to take this seriously, it's actually silly. That Trump knew about the meeting with the Russians, about the Stormy Daniels pay-off, about the Wikileaks dump, that he lied about his relationship to/with Felix Sater. Those factual assertions.
Meanwhile, the imaginative repubs take turns saying, "You're a criminal, do you have a book deal?" Geniuses, that lot.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2019 14:09:15 GMT -5
Jordan is WRECKING him right now.
I can't take you seriously anymore. Only deep, deep, deep delusion could make you see it this way. Fer serious. In every way, the GOP questioners are making things worse for Trump. Certainly they are not helping him. Their best efforts are extremely weak sauce. Your boy Trump is going down. Oh, not today, not just because of this, but this will surely be part of it. ETA: Really, truly -- can you not see how bad this is for Trump? Really?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2019 14:13:32 GMT -5
Yeah, Gaetz is a hothead, and that Tweet seems to have crossed a serious line. I say "seems" because I'm not a lawyer. This hearing is a shit show from both sides. Oh. My. God. You are both-sidesing the GAETZ THING and this hearing?! Jesus H. Christ. It's a shit show. But it's about as one-sided as shit-shows get.
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Post by celawson on Feb 27, 2019 14:18:51 GMT -5
Bringing a criminal liar to a hearing who admits he discussed this wirh congressional Dems like Schiff prior is NOT a shit show for the Dems?
And I’m the biased one. HAHAHAHAHA. I can’t take you seriously anymore either.
MAGA!
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Post by markesq on Feb 27, 2019 14:43:55 GMT -5
I don't know for sure, of course, but I strongly believe that every accusation Cohen is making, Mueller has not just heard weeks/months ago, but also has corroborating evidence for. I see this as a preview of SOME of the Mueller report, delivered by a very imperfect vessel.
As to Cass's point, whether Trump is "going down," I very much hope so. The issue will be whether Trump supporters decide everything Mueller has to say is a lie or "fake news." I fear we're at a point where those who have thrown their support Trump's way will never see anything except what they want to.
Also, it's not lost on me that those Trump backers at the hearing, and here, have essentially two talking points for Cohen: "You're a liar, and you're lying to profit from it." That's how they're defending the most mendacious president ever (indisputable, surely?!) and a total grifter.
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Post by celawson on Feb 27, 2019 14:56:07 GMT -5
I don't know for sure, of course, but I strongly believe that every accusation Cohen is making, Mueller has not just heard weeks/months ago, but also has corroborating evidence for. I see this as a preview of SOME of the Mueller report, delivered by a very imperfect vessel. As to Cass's point, whether Trump is "going down," I very much hope so. The issue will be whether Trump supporters decide everything Mueller has to say is a lie or "fake news." I fear we're at a point where those who have thrown their support Trump's way will never see anything except what they want to. Also, it's not lost on me that those Trump backers at the hearing, and here, have essentially two talking points for Cohen: "You're a liar, and you're lying to profit from it." That's how they're defending the most mendacious president ever (indisputable, surely?!) and a total grifter. Again, echoing prior discussions here, does Trump's history of lying have any relevance to the veracity of what Michal Cohen is saying about him?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2019 14:56:13 GMT -5
By going down, I do not necessarily mean impeached. In any other era, he would be, but it's a political thing and we can't make the Senate do it.
I mean that sooner or later, he is going to be indicted. He is going to face legal consequences, and I'm betting financial ones.
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