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Post by celawson on Mar 26, 2019 10:23:47 GMT -5
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Post by michaelw on Mar 26, 2019 10:36:23 GMT -5
Now time to investigate what really matters: Hillary Clinton's emails. * *I'm joking, I'm joking.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 10:42:07 GMT -5
You look far, far too deep into this Cass. While you may be right, the fact is for the vast majority of Americans there is one fact that matters: 2 year investigation, no charges against Trump. And it pretty much stops there for most. Then again, I am a pretty cynical person. You may or may not be right that for most people it stops there. (On the one hand, most Americans are unfortunately pretty oblivious and don't pay that much attention. I mean, we still have people who think there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and that Obama is a Muslim who was born in Kenya. On the other, most Americans think Trump is lying pond scum.) That wouldn't make them correct that it should stop there. I think people who ARE paying attention are not satisfied with the Barr letter, unless their interest is purely in protecting Trump rather than in the truth. Me, I want to know what Mueller found, not just whether Barr decided to bring charges (which, btw, I think Congress should decide). I like knowing the truth. If Mueller's findings are that Trump is pure as the driven snow and a mere victim of a witchhunt, I want to know why he thinks that. I'm not ever going to be happy with a half quote and a hand wave by a partisan -- not after a two-year extensive investigation, particularly not one that stated that the president is not exonerated -- and no thinking person should be. Would be curious if our Trump partisans think the full report (that they believe exonerates Trump) should be released, as, e.g., the Starr report was. Actually, no; I'm not curious after all. I'm certain they think it doesn't matter or who cares or there are good talking points on why it shouldn't be released and how we should totally just trust Barr because.
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Post by prozyan on Mar 26, 2019 12:09:56 GMT -5
All I'm saying is getting the general population to see past Barr's initial words is going to be extremely difficult if no impossible.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 12:22:09 GMT -5
All I'm saying is getting the general population to see past Barr's initial words is going to be extremely difficult if no impossible. I totally agree with you there. That was the whole point, I think, of Barr releasing that summary in the first place. But hey, it's not what Dems (and any GOP primary contenders, of whom I hope there are a couple) should run on. Luckily, the GOP is giving them plenty. Besides the "hey, we're making another attempt to kill the ACA and replace it with nothing!" see above, there's the fact that Trump is now overriding Congress to divert money from real military projects to build his fucking wall. I mean, it's not like most of the country is opposed this fucking wall, or that Congress, not the president, is supposed to decide how that money gets spent, or that Trump has golfed 17 times during his fake emergency. Oh, wait, that's all true. Huh. So, yeah, other than continuing to push hard for release of the full report, and broadcasting how seedy it is that they're trying their damndest to spackle it over, Dems should move on to the incredibly awful, harmful, unpopular shit Trump is doing, and the GOP is letting him do. That's where 2020 will be won.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 26, 2019 12:26:21 GMT -5
Interesting enough, but media reporting on how media reported on things is frustrating when there's an actual report that should be released, and is genuine news waiting to be reported on. The funny thing about post-mortems is there will always be those whom will proclaim, "I knew it! I knew it was bullshit all along! It's the media's fault!" We will now add Matt Taibbi and the slimy Glenn Greenwald to the ranks of the professional scolds.
The one thing everyone knows about the media is they know they don't like the media. They're rude. They're nosy. They're intrusive. They're laser-focused on celebrity and conspiracy, sleaze and scandal. The media blows up trivialities into major events and ignore that which is not sexy, young, stylish, hip, hot, and easy to understand. We are living in the Kardashian Age of News.
There has always been a critical eye turned on how good or bad the press coverage of a major event was. After Watergate, the O.J. Simpson trial, Viet Nam, the Clinton impeachment, and now the Russian collusion case were and will be closely examined by media critics within and without the mainstream media. The end of the Mueller investigation may have been anti-climatic, but it was always newsworthy.
When the media gets the story wrong they deserve to be dragged, but I'm not certain I agree they got the story wrong. I echo the sentiments expressed by Joshua Holland, author of the essay above, "...real journalists did their jobs covering an objectively huge story."
Come at me, bro.
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Post by prozyan on Mar 26, 2019 13:08:23 GMT -5
All I'm saying is getting the general population to see past Barr's initial words is going to be extremely difficult if no impossible. I totally agree with you there. That was the whole point, I think, of Barr releasing that summary in the first place. But hey, it's not what Dems (and any GOP primary contenders, of whom I hope there are a couple) should run on. Luckily, the GOP is giving them plenty. Besides the "hey, we're making another attempt to kill the ACA and replace it with nothing!" see above, there's the fact that Trump is now overriding Congress to divert money from real military projects to build his fucking wall. I mean, it's not like most of the country is opposed this fucking wall, or that Congress, not the president, is supposed to decide how that money gets spent, or that Trump has golfed 17 times during his fake emergency. Oh, wait, that's all true. Huh. So, yeah, other than continuing to push hard for release of the full report, and broadcasting how seedy it is that they're trying their damndest to spackle it over, Dems should move on to the incredibly awful, harmful, unpopular shit Trump is doing, and the GOP is letting him do. That's where 2020 will be won. I see 2020 as really, really simple. Only 2 points matter: 1. Trump remains un-charged and un-indicted. 2. The economy, stupid. Unless there is a major, major reversal in the next year, its going to be pretty good.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 13:49:07 GMT -5
I think those two things will certainly matter. But I think health care was a big factor in 2018, and if the GOP continues to try to kill things pretty much everyone wants and needs--e.g., pre-existing conditions -- it will be a factor in 2020.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 13:59:20 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 14:29:30 GMT -5
Proposed plan for Democratic leaders: pretend that you're anxious to keep the Mueller report under wraps. Trump supporters will then believe this is because you're afraid it will come out that this was all a witchhunt and Trump is pure as the driven snow, and demand the report be released in full.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 26, 2019 14:32:34 GMT -5
First off Nighttimer, I want to thank you for being concerned about my sphincter. Not nearly enough people are concerned about sphincters in general.
Assholes are like opinions. Everybody's got one and they usually stink.
"Exaggerator?" You're low-balling it, aren't you? Your pussygrabber of a president is a lying psychopath.
What was shown by the Barr Memo that made the Dems and MSM "liers" (sic)? Even if that's so, what of it? You're a Trumper. You guys like liars. Hell, Trump lies to your face all the time and you come back time and again, so don't flex and pose like *45 is a paragon of truth.
How do you figure that? I haven't seen anyone who thought Trump was a piece of shit last week say he's a great guy this week.
Never fear. She is here. But what is there to take a victory lap about? That a Republican pussygrabber was "exonerated" from a summary written by a Republican A.G. based on a report nobody has read of an investigation conducted by a Republican FBI director?
Child, puh-leeze. Trump could eat a live puppy on national TV and you and celawson would find a way to justify it.
Now time to investigate what really matters: Hillary Clinton's emails. * *I'm joking, I'm joking. No...no. You're not joking. Your predicting. Correctly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 15:54:00 GMT -5
Oh, goodie. Trump gets to edit the Mueller report before it is released.
Are you FUCKING kidding me?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 16:02:52 GMT -5
Gee, did Nixon and Clinton get to edit, too?
We are so fucking turning into a banana republic.
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Post by markesq on Mar 26, 2019 16:07:38 GMT -5
Repubs are so much better at this, the no-holds-barred fighting. Dems are still wanting to play by the rules, put country and constitution before party unity, rely on decency and the rule of law. Face it, Reps are better at winning, they're certainly playing this beautifully.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 16:10:22 GMT -5
Anyone who celebrates this as "winning" has my deep and abiding contempt.
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