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Post by robeiae on May 31, 2020 16:58:54 GMT -5
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Post by michaelw on May 31, 2020 19:38:58 GMT -5
These two ideas are not mutually exclusive. Agreed. I just don't think both positions are always present. Shit, I know people in real life who probably think Floyd should've been more cooperative, should've done X or Y and therefore caused his own death. I know that you don't feel that way, but I bet you're aware that this is sort of a default position for a lot of people when it comes to deaths caused by police. And has been that way for a long time, unfortunately.
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Post by robeiae on Jun 1, 2020 7:56:57 GMT -5
For sure, there are a lot of people who look to excuse cops for any transgression, no matter how heinous. I know such people, as well. But I also know people who look to do the opposite, who look to blame cops (or excuse criminal suspects) for any situation that guys bad. And I also know such people. But there's plenty of room in between, and that's where the great majority of people are. They may lean--to varrying degrees--one direction or the other, but they're still in the middle. Even though they may be "pro-cop," they'll still allow that sometimes cops go too far. Even though they may be "pro-citizen" (I don't want to say "pro-criminal"), they'll still allow that sometimes cops are justified in their actions. We--the general "we"--are far too caught up in criticizing the extremes, in trying to force people into either one side or the other. South Florida had a great moment yesterday (I linked to it in the other thread), with cops from various departments kneeling before protesters to show solidarity, to ask for forgiveness. And that moment kinda went to shit last night. Getting upset with the people who starting destroying things and looting stores after a peaceful day of protests doesn't equate to carrying more about property than someone's life, imo.
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Post by robeiae on Jun 1, 2020 8:23:15 GMT -5
An utterly fair commentary from Marco Rubio:
But read the comments: no one can accept it, it's all the fault of the Left, or it's all the fault of the Right.
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Post by michaelw on Jun 1, 2020 20:29:31 GMT -5
Pretty much all the physical assaulting I'm seeing on my Twitter feed is being done by the police. Knocking down an old man with a cane for standing on a street, kicking and macing people who are sitting, for heaven's sake. I'm also seeing protestors protect cops and block people from looting. Y'all know I'm in law enforcement but after what I've seen these last few days, the way the cops have behaved only reinforces why so many are protesting. Bolded for emphasis. Yeah, there was a recent piece in Reason, that took the same angle... reason.com/2020/05/31/nations-cops-seem-determined-to-demonstrate-why-people-are-protesting-them-in-the-first-place/And some of these incidents are really crossing a line, I think, like going after people who are just standing on their own porches. It definitely seems to reinforce a kind of us vs. them feeling, which isn't going to push things in the right direction, at all. Now, I can acknowledge easily that civilians might be the instigators in some cases, absolutely. I mean, there's video evidence that shows that to be the case. But I expect a lot more from police, because they're public servants. So when I see civilians escalating the violence, and then I see police doing the same, it bothers me a lot more coming from the police. Is that an unfair standard? Well, I could be wrong about this, but I really don't think it is. I expect that civilians are gonna commit all kinds of various crimes: insurance fraud, shoplifting, assault, bribery, murder, and so on. And those are all things that can and should be punished, of course. But when the people committing the crimes are law enforcement, the people we're entrusting to protect us from these same crimes, that's an indication of a much more difficult set of issues. Issues that we should be less willing to accept, rather than more willing. Just my opinion, of course.
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Post by michaelw on Jun 2, 2020 11:04:43 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Jun 3, 2020 17:26:19 GMT -5
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Post by michaelw on Jun 4, 2020 5:26:11 GMT -5
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