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Post by robeiae on Jun 10, 2020 8:52:27 GMT -5
thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/501998-christopher-columbus-statues-toppled-in-richmond-beheaded-inI can support--or at least not object to--the protests over police malfeasance, over the ways in which black Americans are treated differently by police officers almost as a matter of course. There are bad cops who need to be taken down, but there are also real structural/policy issues that need to be addressed. But with the morphing of these protests into grievances involving people and events from hundreds of years ago, I gotta say that my support is waning and will soon be gone, altogether. What's next? Should I organize a march on Rome to protest the Roman invasion and occupation of Germania and Britannia, my "ancestral homelands"? And there are goddamn statues and busts of Ceasar and Augustus all over the place. Shouldn't they all be torn down and destroyed?
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Post by markesq on Jun 10, 2020 11:35:20 GMT -5
In some ways I agree, Rob, it's hard to know where to draw the line. But I also understand how offensive it must be to see statues honoring slave traders and other truly bad people remain standing. If we accept that this country was very much built on racism, then I think it's OK to to remove some of the lasting symbols of that racism. But the line-drawing, that's where I run out of ideas.
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Post by robeiae on Jun 10, 2020 13:14:11 GMT -5
I'll just say that I understand the objections to Confederate monuments and flags. The fact of the matter is that the Confederacy was brought into existence to protect legal slavery, there's no way around it, even if the rank-and-file soldiers (and some leaders) didn't see it that way. And the Civil War came after the founding of the US, after the establishment of the country (in the same way that the Holocaust came after the establishment of Germany). Similarly, Native Americans who have been and are being treated differently deserve to be heard, too, because official US actions have marginalized them.
But when it comes to periods of general exploration and conquest, I'll draw lines. Because there's precious little honest evaluation of these periods, when it comes to who did what to whom, and using race/ethnicity to claim some sort of affinity to people now long dead is, in and of itself, simply self-gratifying bullshit.
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Post by robeiae on Jun 10, 2020 14:11:05 GMT -5
Then there's shit like this:
Not an ideal time to express one's deep-seated anti-semitism, imo. But he's got a ton of defenders, so maybe it is an ideal time...
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Post by Vince524 on Jun 10, 2020 19:34:33 GMT -5
Well, this should finish you off.
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Post by michaelw on Jun 10, 2020 21:12:10 GMT -5
I dunno that I would draw too much of a distinction between, say, confederate leaders and someone like Leopold, at least as far as the issue of statues goes. They lived during the same time period and both supported a system that treated people as property. Would be pretty easy to make a case that Leopold was--if anything-- much worse, I would think. I can't say I have a huge problem w/ taking his statue down, to be honest.
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Post by robeiae on Jun 11, 2020 13:46:40 GMT -5
No one is safe: www.change.org/p/ucla-fire-ucla-professor-gordon-kleinA student asked a UCLA professor--of 39 years--to suspend the final exam for black students. He refused, in part because as he rightly noted, he didn't even know the race of all of his students on an online course. So of course, a petition was started to have him fired. He's been put on leave while the school "investigates." Fucking self-righteous snotrags. This isn't about "justice" or ending discrimination, it's about finding a target and burning them down, just for the sake of watching them burn.
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Post by Optimus on Jun 11, 2020 18:39:10 GMT -5
FIRE's got his back, and UCLA really has no defense for their actions, so he'll likely win in the end. www.thefire.org/fire-defends-ucla-professor-suspended-for-email-on-why-he-wouldnt-change-exam-grading-for-black-students/But, yeah, the very idea that the black students needed special accomodations because current news is upsetting is some ridiculously asinine, infantilizing bullshit. Pardon my language, but whatever student asked the question and complained in the first place is a complete crybaby pussy and everyone who signed that bullshit petition is a shit-for-brains asshat. I'm getting really tired of the absurd entitlement of SJW clowns.
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Post by robeiae on Jun 11, 2020 19:12:01 GMT -5
My understanding is that student who made the request isn't even black, but was making the request on behalf of the black students in the class.
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Post by Vince524 on Jun 11, 2020 20:14:44 GMT -5
FIRE's got his back, and UCLA really has no defense for their actions, so he'll likely win in the end. www.thefire.org/fire-defends-ucla-professor-suspended-for-email-on-why-he-wouldnt-change-exam-grading-for-black-students/But, yeah, the very idea that the black students needed special accomodations because current news is upsetting is some ridiculously asinine, infantilizing bullshit. Pardon my language, but whatever student asked the question and complained in the first place is a complete crybaby pussy and everyone who signed that bullshit petition is a shit-for-brains asshat. I'm getting really tired of the absurd entitlement of SJW clowns. FIRE wrote a letter, but unless they also file a lawsuit the school can and probably will ignore them.
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Post by Optimus on Jun 11, 2020 20:22:13 GMT -5
FIRE's got his back, and UCLA really has no defense for their actions, so he'll likely win in the end. www.thefire.org/fire-defends-ucla-professor-suspended-for-email-on-why-he-wouldnt-change-exam-grading-for-black-students/But, yeah, the very idea that the black students needed special accomodations because current news is upsetting is some ridiculously asinine, infantilizing bullshit. Pardon my language, but whatever student asked the question and complained in the first place is a complete crybaby pussy and everyone who signed that bullshit petition is a shit-for-brains asshat. I'm getting really tired of the absurd entitlement of SJW clowns. FIRE wrote a letter, but unless they also file a lawsuit the school can and probably will ignore them. Standard practice is that they write a letter first and sue if nothing gets done. Not sure if that's legally required in this type of case but I know that in some states it is in defamation suits. FIRE seems to usually take this approach first, regardless, as I'm sure they'd rather avoid going to court whenever possible.
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Post by Optimus on Jun 11, 2020 20:37:39 GMT -5
My understanding is that student who made the request isn't even black, but was making the request on behalf of the black students in the class. That wouldn't surprise me. Seems it's usually the upper-middle class privileged white kids who get the most bothered by perceived offences and usually do so on behalf of non-whites, especially when non-whites aren't really all that bothered by whatever issue it is the white lefties try to tell them that they should be offended by.
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Post by robeiae on Jun 12, 2020 8:56:51 GMT -5
The more I think about this particular episode, the more pissed off I get. 20,000+ douchebags have signed a petition to get a guy fired from his job. And chances are, over 99% of those who signed don't know the guy, have never taken a class with him, etc. They're internet "activists" who don't give a shit if they hurt someone, all they care about is the imaginary "woke cred" they get from being a part of the effort. Assholes, every last one of them.
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Post by robeiae on Jun 12, 2020 9:04:48 GMT -5
Then they came for the cartoon puppies: toofab.com/2020/06/11/why-paw-patro-police-brutality-debate/What an ignorant argument. Teachers--bad ones--do plenty of harm, too. Should all "good-teacher archetypes" be banished, too? How about doctors and nurses? And parents, what about stinking parents? There are plenty of bad ones out there, so let's not show any in a positive light.
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Post by Optimus on Jun 12, 2020 11:47:16 GMT -5
It does make me think of an interesting point, though. How much blame does or should Hollywood have in this when it comes to glorifying "bad cops."
How many movies have portrayed cops who "break the rules" and rough up bad guys as the heroes?
How many episodes of Law & Order: SVU (for example), showed Stabler abusing suspects but still portrayed as the hero because his intentions were portrayed as "good"?
I wonder how many people see these types of depictions, which are often nothing more than "bully as hero" power fantasies, and took those perceptions with them when pursuing law enforcement careers. I wonder how many people see these types of depictions and have come to think or otherwise normalize the belief that it's okay for police (or FBI or whomever) to "break the rules" sometimes if they believe it's somehow in service of justice?
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