Anti "cancel culture" letter

robeiae
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Anti "cancel culture" letter Jul 8, 2020 8:44:17 GMT -5

Post by robeiae on Jul 8, 2020 8:44:17 GMT -5

Here 'tis: harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/

From it:

The forces of illiberalism are gaining strength throughout the world and have a powerful ally in Donald Trump, who represents a real threat to democracy. But resistance must not be allowed to harden into its own brand of dogma or coercion—which right-wing demagogues are already exploiting. The democratic inclusion we want can be achieved only if we speak out against the intolerant climate that has set in on all sides.

The free exchange of information and ideas, the lifeblood of a liberal society, is daily becoming more constricted. While we have come to expect this on the radical right, censoriousness is also spreading more widely in our culture: an intolerance of opposing views, a vogue for public shaming and ostracism, and the tendency to dissolve complex policy issues in a blinding moral certainty. We uphold the value of robust and even caustic counter-speech from all quarters. But it is now all too common to hear calls for swift and severe retribution in response to perceived transgressions of speech and thought.

Wow, how radical.

The signatories:

Elliot Ackerman
Saladin Ambar, Rutgers University
Martin Amis
Anne Applebaum
Marie Arana, author
Margaret Atwood
John Banville
Mia Bay, historian
Louis Begley, writer
Roger Berkowitz, Bard College
Paul Berman, writer
Sheri Berman, Barnard College
Reginald Dwayne Betts, poet
Neil Blair, agent
David W. Blight, Yale University
Jennifer Finney Boylan, author
David Bromwich
David Brooks, columnist
Ian Buruma, Bard College
Lea Carpenter
Noam Chomsky, MIT (emeritus)
Nicholas A. Christakis, Yale University
Roger Cohen, writer
Ambassador Frances D. Cook, ret.
Drucilla Cornell, Founder, uBuntu Project
Kamel Daoud
Meghan Daum, writer
Gerald Early, Washington University-St. Louis
Jeffrey Eugenides, writer
Dexter Filkins
Federico Finchelstein, The New School
Caitlin Flanagan
Richard T. Ford, Stanford Law School
Kmele Foster
David Frum, journalist
Francis Fukuyama, Stanford University
Atul Gawande, Harvard University
Todd Gitlin, Columbia University
Kim Ghattas
Malcolm Gladwell
Michelle Goldberg, columnist
Rebecca Goldstein, writer
Anthony Grafton, Princeton University
David Greenberg, Rutgers University
Linda Greenhouse
Rinne B. Groff, playwright
Sarah Haider, activist
Jonathan Haidt, NYU-Stern
Roya Hakakian, writer
Shadi Hamid, Brookings Institution
Jeet Heer, The Nation
Katie Herzog, podcast host
Susannah Heschel, Dartmouth College
Adam Hochschild, author
Arlie Russell Hochschild, author
Eva Hoffman, writer
Coleman Hughes, writer/Manhattan Institute
Hussein Ibish, Arab Gulf States Institute
Michael Ignatieff
Zaid Jilani, journalist
Bill T. Jones, New York Live Arts
Wendy Kaminer, writer
Matthew Karp, Princeton University
Garry Kasparov, Renew Democracy Initiative
Daniel Kehlmann, writer
Randall Kennedy
Khaled Khalifa, writer
Parag Khanna, author
Laura Kipnis, Northwestern University
Frances Kissling, Center for Health, Ethics, Social Policy
Enrique Krauze, historian
Anthony Kronman, Yale University
Joy Ladin, Yeshiva University
Nicholas Lemann, Columbia University
Mark Lilla, Columbia University
Susie Linfield, New York University
Damon Linker, writer
Dahlia Lithwick, Slate
Steven Lukes, New York University
John R. MacArthur, publisher, writer
Susan Madrak, writer
Phoebe Maltz Bovy, writer
Greil Marcus
Wynton Marsalis, Jazz at Lincoln Center
Kati Marton, author
Debra Maschek, scholar
Deirdre McCloskey, University of Illinois at Chicago
John McWhorter, Columbia University
Uday Mehta, City University of New York
Andrew Moravcsik, Princeton University
Yascha Mounk, Persuasion
Samuel Moyn, Yale University
Meera Nanda, writer and teacher
Cary Nelson, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Olivia Nuzzi, New York Magazine
Mark Oppenheimer, Yale University
Dael Orlandersmith, writer/performer
George Packer
Nell Irvin Painter, Princeton University (emerita)
Greg Pardlo, Rutgers University – Camden
Orlando Patterson, Harvard University
Steven Pinker, Harvard University
Letty Cottin Pogrebin
Katha Pollitt, writer
Claire Bond Potter, The New School
Taufiq Rahim, New America Foundation
Zia Haider Rahman, writer
Jennifer Ratner-Rosenhagen, University of Wisconsin
Jonathan Rauch, Brookings Institution/The Atlantic
Neil Roberts, political theorist
Melvin Rogers, Brown University
Kat Rosenfield, writer
Loretta J. Ross, Smith College
J.K. Rowling
Salman Rushdie, New York University
Karim Sadjadpour, Carnegie Endowment
Daryl Michael Scott, Howard University
Diana Senechal, teacher and writer
Jennifer Senior, columnist
Judith Shulevitz, writer
Jesse Singal, journalist
Anne-Marie Slaughter
Andrew Solomon, writer
Deborah Solomon, critic and biographer
Allison Stanger, Middlebury College
Paul Starr, American Prospect/Princeton University
Wendell Steavenson, writer
Gloria Steinem, writer and activist
Nadine Strossen, New York Law School
Ronald S. Sullivan Jr., Harvard Law School
Kian Tajbakhsh, Columbia University
Zephyr Teachout, Fordham University
Cynthia Tucker, University of South Alabama
Adaner Usmani, Harvard University
Chloe Valdary
Lucía Martínez Valdivia, Reed College
Helen Vendler, Harvard University
Judy B. Walzer
Michael Walzer
Eric K. Washington, historian
Caroline Weber, historian
Randi Weingarten, American Federation of Teachers
Bari Weiss
Sean Wilentz, Princeton University
Garry Wills
Thomas Chatterton Williams, writer
Robert F. Worth, journalist and author
Molly Worthen, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Matthew Yglesias
Emily Yoffe, journalist
Cathy Young, journalist
Fareed Zakaria

That's, um, not a weak list, intellectually speaking (apart from Wilentz, of course). Interestingly--for me, anyway--both Chomsky and Fukuyama signed it.

Anyway, here's the kind of reaction this is engendering from leftist gatekeepers: www.thedailybeast.com/jk-rowling-and-other-assorted-rich-fools-want-to-cancel-cancel-culture

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of...a bunch of wealthy blowhards deciding that now, of all times, is the appropriate moment to ask us all to stop being so mean to them on Twitter.

On Tuesday, Harper’s Magazine—the musty magazine of choice for musty magnates—published a ridiculous and delusional open letter signed by such luminaries as J.K. Rowling, Bari Weiss, David Brooks, Jesse Singal, and Malcolm Gladwell. The purpose of this screed? Ostensibly, to encourage “open debate.” But upon closer inspection, the upshot appears to be that writers and journalists should be able to advance whatever bullshit ideas they want without being held in any way accountable.

Okaaaay, someone's triggered...

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Optimus
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Posts: 2,508

Anti "cancel culture" letter Jul 10, 2020 19:30:06 GMT -5

Post by Optimus on Jul 10, 2020 19:30:06 GMT -5

Yeah, the leftists are pretty much proving the point of the letter. What's also a bit funny (in that hypocritical bullshit kind of way) is some of the responses I've seen on Twitter (ugh, why do I keep going on that trash site) whining that the people in the letter calling for freedom of speech and an end to cancel culture are in "positions of power" to where they aren't in danger of getting canceled or having their speech silenced, so what is the point of them writing the letter?

Uh...I wonder if any of those deranged, mouth-breathing leftists are also denouncing all the people who are non-black and/or have never experienced "anti-black racism" in their lives for speaking up for BLM and equality and against police violence, etc. Since, you know, those people aren't in danger of ever experiencing anti-black racism or racially bigoted police violence.

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Vince524
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Anti "cancel culture" letter Jul 11, 2020 13:54:21 GMT -5

Post by Vince524 on Jul 11, 2020 13:54:21 GMT -5

Clearly, Cancel Culture doesn't exist, and to prove that we must demonize ridicule and demean the signatories of this letter, bringing them personal reunification, loss of their livelihoods and reputations. We shall go into hysterical overdrive driving away their friends, making sure even their children are seen as vile and irredeemable. We will grind them into the dirt and then and only then, from our own safe spaces, we will laugh as we also figure out how to riddle them with cancer. This will prove to all that there IS not Cancel Culture. There are only consequences for exercising your freedom of expression to voice the wrong opinions. We hope this response clears up any confusion. Be well. (Unless you have spoken up against the cause, in which case be patient. We'll get to you in time.)

Signed
The Woke.

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Optimus Illuminati Posts: 2,508	Anti "cancel culture" letter Jul 11, 2020 15:10:58 GMT -5 robeiae likes this Post by Optimus on Jul 11, 2020 15:10:58 GMT -5 Saw this thread on Twitter (read all 8 or 9 follow up tweets for the whole story). I'm sure the leftist goons will still say "nO sUcH tHiNg As CaNcEl CuLtUrE" while also saying "he got what he deserved" at the same time.
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Vince524
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Anti "cancel culture" letter Jul 14, 2020 15:30:49 GMT -5

Post by Vince524 on Jul 14, 2020 15:30:49 GMT -5

reason.com/2020/07/14/gary-garrels-san-francisco-museum-modern-art-racism/

Until last week, Gary Garrels was senior curator of painting and sculpture at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art (SFMOMA). He resigned his position after museum employees circulated a petition that accused him of racism and demanded his immediate ouster.

"Gary's removal from SFMOMA is non-negotiable," read the petition. "Considering his lengthy tenure at this institution, we ask just how long have his toxic white supremacist beliefs regarding race and equity directed his position curating the content of the museum?"

This accusation—that Garrels' choices as an art curator are guided by white supremacist beliefs—is a very serious one. Unsurprisingly, it does not stand up to even minimal scrutiny.

The petitioners cite few examples of anything even approaching bad behavior from Garrels. Their sole complaint is that he allegedly concluded a presentation on how to diversify the museum's holdings by saying, "don't worry, we will definitely still continue to collect white artists."

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Optimus
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Anti "cancel culture" letter Jul 14, 2020 16:50:50 GMT -5 robeiae and Vince524 like this

Post by Optimus on Jul 14, 2020 16:50:50 GMT -5

I don't have a way of posting a pic of it here, but I just noticed on my Twitter "trending" column that some really brain dead Bloomberg opinion column claiming that there's no such thing as cancel culture, is #2 trending.

#1 trending is Bari Weiss quitting the NYT b/c she says she's been bullied by the far-left, cancel-culture staff there. #3 trending is "ByeIvanka" were people are once again trying to "cancel" a Trump. #4 trending is "sebastianstanisover," where a bunch of fuckwits are trying to "cancel" Sebastian Stan (guy who plays the Winter Soldier) because someone dug up a 2 year old picture of his girlfriend in a kimono that she wore to a themed party (i.e., muh cUltUrAl ApPrOpRiAtIoN).

The irony of a "cancel culture isn't real!" article trending in between 3 literal examples of cancel culture would be entertaining if it were simultaneously so depressing.

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robeiae
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Anti "cancel culture" letter Jul 15, 2020 7:00:38 GMT -5 Optimus and michaelw like this

Post by robeiae on Jul 15, 2020 7:00:38 GMT -5

I thought the Sebastian Stan stuff had to be some sort of goof. But no, it looks real. And part of it is being fueled by Stan's outrageous act of blocking "fans" who call his girlfriend a racist or the like. The nerve of some people, huh, not wanting to engage with lowlife pieces of crap?

Here's the Bari Weiss resignation letter: www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

From it:

Twitter is not on the masthead of The New York Times. But Twitter has become its ultimate editor.

That's a great line. And not only that, I think it's true not only for the times, but for most media outlets. Because twitter mentions drive traffic, especially for their target audiences. Look at this crapfest of an article at USA Today and tell me it wasn't written just for twitter, just so the title could be liked and retweeted over and over again: Fact check: Trump campaign accused of T-shirt design with similarity to Nazi eagle

Now, the article has been updated, after "further reporting and analysis," and the true claim has been changed to inconclusive. So let's observe the original, shall we: web.archive.org/web/20200712033850/https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/07/11/fact-check-trump-2020-campaign-shirt-design-similar-nazi-eagle/5414393002/

This is the claim that is to be "fact-checked":

The claim: Trump campaign shirts feature imperial eagle, a Nazi symbol

Following the claim, there's a bunch of "reporting," but none of it is worth reading. Let's go straight to the judgement:

Our ruling: True
The claims that a Trump campaign T-shirt has come under criticism for using a symbol similar to a Nazi eagle is TRUE, based on our research.

WHAT. THE. FUCK. Is this a fifth grade language arts assignment? The claim was that the "shirts feature imperial eagle, a Nazi symbol," not that the shirts have come under criticism. OF COURSE that latter claim is true. There would be no need for a fact check if it wasn't true. Was there someone actually DENYING that the shirts had come under criticism? No, of course not.

It's a hilariously stupid piece.

Anyway, the conclusion in the updated version:

Our ruling: Inconclusive

The U.S. government has many uses of eagle imagery in its official seals and emblems including on the "Great Seal of America," on the presidential seal and on the mace of the U.S. House of Representatives. The Trump campaign's T-shirt includes the use of an eagle that some claim bears resemblance to a Nazi eagle. We rate the claim that the Trump campaign is using Nazi imagery as INCONCLUSIVE, based on our research.

It's still stupid, but it least it's not a complete bait and switch, now.

But again, I contend this piece was all about twitter. It was written for twitter's left-leaning audience and was allowing to stay up with all of its flaws until there was sufficient pushback on twitter for these flaws, then it was scaled back slightly. The NYT is operating this way almost as a matter of course, now.

Last Edit: Jul 15, 2020 9:24:40 GMT -5 by robeiae

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Optimus
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Anti "cancel culture" letter Jul 15, 2020 14:48:54 GMT -5 robeiae likes this

Post by Optimus on Jul 15, 2020 14:48:54 GMT -5

I notice that Snopes does slippery shit like that sometimes too where there's a rumour about a picture or video or something that's blatantly false, and Snopes will label it "miscaptioned," instead of false.

The rumour is making a specific, often inflammatory claim about the picture. That specific claim is false. Therefore the rumour should be labeled "false," rather than saying the picture is "miscaptioned."

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robeiae
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Anti "cancel culture" letter Jul 16, 2020 6:29:27 GMT -5

Post by robeiae on Jul 16, 2020 6:29:27 GMT -5

No cancel culture, my ass: reason.com/2020/07/14/gary-garrels-san-francisco-museum-modern-art-racism/

Until last week, Gary Garrels was senior curator of painting and sculpture at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art (SFMOMA). He resigned his position after museum employees circulated a petition that accused him of racism and demanded his immediate ouster.

"Gary's removal from SFMOMA is non-negotiable," read the petition. "Considering his lengthy tenure at this institution, we ask just how long have his toxic white supremacist beliefs regarding race and equity directed his position curating the content of the museum?"

This accusation—that Garrels' choices as an art curator are guided by white supremacist beliefs—is a very serious one. Unsurprisingly, it does not stand up to even minimal scrutiny.

The petitioners cite few examples of anything even approaching bad behavior from Garrels. Their sole complaint is that he allegedly concluded a presentation on how to diversify the museum's holdings by saying, "don't worry, we will definitely still continue to collect white artists."

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Vince524
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Anti "cancel culture" letter Jul 16, 2020 12:39:39 GMT -5 robeiae likes this

Post by Vince524 on Jul 16, 2020 12:39:39 GMT -5

Jul 14, 2020 15:30:49 GMT -5 Vince524 said:

reason.com/2020/07/14/gary-garrels-san-francisco-museum-modern-art-racism/

Until last week, Gary Garrels was senior curator of painting and sculpture at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art (SFMOMA). He resigned his position after museum employees circulated a petition that accused him of racism and demanded his immediate ouster.

"Gary's removal from SFMOMA is non-negotiable," read the petition. "Considering his lengthy tenure at this institution, we ask just how long have his toxic white supremacist beliefs regarding race and equity directed his position curating the content of the museum?"

This accusation—that Garrels' choices as an art curator are guided by white supremacist beliefs—is a very serious one. Unsurprisingly, it does not stand up to even minimal scrutiny.

The petitioners cite few examples of anything even approaching bad behavior from Garrels. Their sole complaint is that he allegedly concluded a presentation on how to diversify the museum's holdings by saying, "don't worry, we will definitely still continue to collect white artists."

Jul 16, 2020 6:29:27 GMT -5 robeiae said:

No cancel culture, my ass: reason.com/2020/07/14/gary-garrels-san-francisco-museum-modern-art-racism/

Until last week, Gary Garrels was senior curator of painting and sculpture at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art (SFMOMA). He resigned his position after museum employees circulated a petition that accused him of racism and demanded his immediate ouster.

"Gary's removal from SFMOMA is non-negotiable," read the petition. "Considering his lengthy tenure at this institution, we ask just how long have his toxic white supremacist beliefs regarding race and equity directed his position curating the content of the museum?"

This accusation—that Garrels' choices as an art curator are guided by white supremacist beliefs—is a very serious one. Unsurprisingly, it does not stand up to even minimal scrutiny.

The petitioners cite few examples of anything even approaching bad behavior from Garrels. Their sole complaint is that he allegedly concluded a presentation on how to diversify the museum's holdings by saying, "don't worry, we will definitely still continue to collect white artists."

Dude, are you trying to tell me you don't even read my posts???

I feel cancelled.

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robeiae Thaumaturge On a down bound train Posts: 6,692	Anti "cancel culture" letter Jul 16, 2020 14:11:13 GMT -5 michaelw likes this Post by robeiae on Jul 16, 2020 14:11:13 GMT -5 Hahahahaha...I may be getting old. I did read your post, I really did! How I managed to read the story again and not remember is a mystery. I guess now I know how Biden must feel...
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Optimus Illuminati Posts: 2,508	Anti "cancel culture" letter Jul 16, 2020 14:31:20 GMT -5 robeiae likes this Post by Optimus on Jul 16, 2020 14:31:20 GMT -5 I'm canceling Rob for unintentional plagiarism. Obviously, his white supremacy causes him to internalize his whiteness and marginalize Vince's posts, thereby silencing his voice and erasing his lived experiences. #RobIsOverParty
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robeiae
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Anti "cancel culture" letter Jul 17, 2020 7:54:14 GMT -5 Optimus likes this

Post by robeiae on Jul 17, 2020 7:54:14 GMT -5

Interesting read from Greenwald: How “Cancel Culture” Repeatedly Emerged in My Attempt to Make a Film About Tennis Legend Martina Navratilova

I would argue that he's a little too hero-worshippy with Navratilova (regardless of her acomplishments, regardless of her politics, she was not a nice person back in the days of her rivalry with Evert, which impacted her endorsement deals, along with her sexuality), but that doesn't change the other stuff he describes.

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robeiae
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Posts: 6,692

Anti "cancel culture" letter Jul 23, 2020 9:27:56 GMT -5 Optimus likes this

Post by robeiae on Jul 23, 2020 9:27:56 GMT -5

Here's a long piece by Zack Beauchamp at Vox, attempting to explain how "cancel culture" is actually an aspect of something that is a Good Thing, something that needs to happen: www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/7/22/21325942/free-speech-harpers-letter-bari-weiss-andrew-sullivan

It is--in my view--strong evidence that lunatics (or otherwise intellectually deficient thinkers) are running the asylum. It attempts to be thoughtful and even-handed, but it's just a poorly argued load of crap.

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Vince524 Illuminati Eating bacon Posts: 2,009	Anti "cancel culture" letter Jul 23, 2020 18:51:54 GMT -5 Optimus likes this Post by Vince524 on Jul 23, 2020 18:51:54 GMT -5 That's the playbook. 1) Explain how Cancel Culture doesn't exist. 2) Explain why it's a good thing to have. 3) If anyone questions that Cancel Culture is both not real and a great thing, cancel them.
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Post by robeiae on Jul 8, 2020 8:44:17 GMT -5

Post by Optimus on Jul 10, 2020 19:30:06 GMT -5

Post by Vince524 on Jul 11, 2020 13:54:21 GMT -5

Post by Optimus on Jul 11, 2020 15:10:58 GMT -5

Post by Vince524 on Jul 14, 2020 15:30:49 GMT -5

Post by Optimus on Jul 14, 2020 16:50:50 GMT -5

Post by robeiae on Jul 15, 2020 7:00:38 GMT -5

Post by Optimus on Jul 15, 2020 14:48:54 GMT -5

Post by robeiae on Jul 16, 2020 6:29:27 GMT -5

Post by Vince524 on Jul 16, 2020 12:39:39 GMT -5

Post by robeiae on Jul 16, 2020 14:11:13 GMT -5

Post by Optimus on Jul 16, 2020 14:31:20 GMT -5

Post by robeiae on Jul 17, 2020 7:54:14 GMT -5

Post by robeiae on Jul 23, 2020 9:27:56 GMT -5

Post by Vince524 on Jul 23, 2020 18:51:54 GMT -5