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Post by michaelw on Aug 28, 2020 10:49:02 GMT -5
Can you be fined for not showing up if you do in fact show up, though? Because I thought both the Bucks and the Magic were present at the arena. But to be honest, I have no idea what the fine print says, for any of this stuff. Maybe you're right and the NBA could've issued fines and simply decided not to do that. I really don't know.
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Post by robeiae on Aug 28, 2020 11:42:34 GMT -5
The players are under contract to play and to practice. I'm pretty sure ownership can fine them. The league may not be able to fine players for not playing, but it may be able to fine the teams (which of course would be why the teams fine the players, or withhold salaries, per diems, etc.). But the point is that this pseudo-boycott by the players was fully undermined by the leagues, because the leagues don't won't to miss out on the perceived brownie points available for being properly "woke" (which I think is total bullshit on the part of the leagues: they're the quintessential examples of virtue signalers, here). And look at this headline at ESPN: What we'll remember most from a historic week in the NBA The sports journos are totally invested in this all being a significant thing, a Really Big Deal. I think that they're fooling themselves in the extreme. It's only a big deal to them and to people who are 100% behind BLM. To everyone else, it's a nothing moment at best, a laughably stupid moment at worst. No one--imo--is out there saying to themselves, "gee, I didn't think these protests had any validity, but if the NBA is postponing games over the issue, maybe I should rethink my position."
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Post by michaelw on Aug 28, 2020 19:00:04 GMT -5
I dunno. I mean, I am fairly sympathetic toward BLM, so I guess I might be part of the target audience for the NBA's fishing for brownie points. But I don't really see the NBA as being all that woke here. I think they might have been more worried about damage control w/ the players, rather than the public. Taking a hardline stance on this might have easily backfired, whereas now it's looking more likely that the season is gonna continue, which obviously is what the NBA was hoping for.
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Post by Optimus on Aug 28, 2020 19:05:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I think all of that would make sense if the Magic had wanted to go ahead w/ the game. But it looked to me like they had left the court prior to tip-off, and then later made it clear through a team statement that they also felt the game shouldn't have gone ahead as scheduled. If that's correct, then I don't see how the NBA could've chalked up a loss for the Bucks, or a win for the Magic. I mean, they could have, but it wouldn't really make any sense. How can you (reasonably) win a game by forfeit if you weren't willing to play? I imagine the social pressure of the current climate precluded anyone on the Magic from stating they still wanted to play, whether true or not. If even one player had said that, the backlash would've been swift and overbearing and they'd immediately be labeled an irredeemable rAcIsT. It's a no-win scenario for anyone who might object, no matter how nuanced or well-reasoned their position. Best for players and the league to just cave to the woke mob, lest they be sacrificed on the altar of moral purity. However, I find the "brave, nobel stance" of the league and many of the players is grotesquely hypocritical given how much they bend the knee to China, who actually is torturing and murdering POC in modern day concentration camps, not to mention oppressing its own people in Hong Kong (and the entire country, really). I realize that what happens in China doesn't directly affect them, but it could be argued that the stories they're protesting don't directly affect them either (given their elite status both financially and in terms of fame). For a lot of the players, them speaking out is from a place of privilege, if not social pressure. For the NBA, they're just doing the most financially beneficial thing for their profits, which is why they take the side of so-called "social justice" in the US, but ban and censor any type of social justice speech aimed at China (for example, a pre-selected list of SJW terms/phrases are allowed on jerseys, but the NBA will not allow any that speak to social justice issues in China: sports.yahoo.com/jaylen-brown-and-mike-scott-dont-love-nb-as-list-of-social-justice-messages-for-jerseys-201316159.html).
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Post by michaelw on Aug 28, 2020 19:19:55 GMT -5
I realize that what happens in China doesn't directly affect them, but it could be argued that the stories they're protesting don't directly affect them either (given their elite status both financially and in terms of fame). I agree w/ the general point about China, because you're right, obviously there's some pretty f****ed up things going on in China now. But as to the point above, I think there's now a growing realization that run-ins w/ police can happen to anyone, not just poor people who aren't famous. See Sterling Brown or Masai Ujiri, for two examples.
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Post by Optimus on Aug 28, 2020 19:25:31 GMT -5
My overall point was that when people like LeBron James say, "Black Lives Matter," they seem to only mean "American Black Lives." He and other players, if they were really strongly committed to the mistreatment of POC, would leverage that to get the NBA to stop kowtowing to China who, since 2018, have detained and/or killed roughly 20,000 times as many POC than cops in the US have shot.
So, while they are protesting mistreatment of POC in one instance (specifically, where they know speaking out WON'T financially harm their business), they are arguably okay with it in another instance (specifically, where they know speaking out WOULD financially harm their business).
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Post by michaelw on Aug 28, 2020 20:10:13 GMT -5
My overall point was that when people like LeBron James say, "Black Lives Matter," they seem to only mean "American Black Lives." He and other players, if they were really strongly committed to the mistreatment of POC, would leverage that to get the NBA to stop kowtowing to China who, since 2018, have detained and/or killed roughly 20,000 times as many POC than cops in the US have shot. So, while they are protesting mistreatment of POC in one instance (specifically, where they know speaking out WON'T financially harm their business), they are arguably okay with it in another instance (specifically, where they know speaking out WOULD financially harm their business). Yep, I understand. But I think you highlighted yourself one of the reasons for that. As you said, players are a bit farther removed from events in China than they are events in the US. And really, (almost) everyone who's against Chinese policies can probably be branded a hypocrite to some degree, including myself. It's not just the NBA that does business w/ China, after all. It's also Starbucks, Apple, Nike, and so on and so forth, ad infinitum. But I'm not gonna dump my latte or burn my Macbook.
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Post by robeiae on Aug 29, 2020 7:30:26 GMT -5
Personally, I cut the players some amount of slack, given the reality of many of their backgrounds, when it comes to this sort of hypocrisy.
The teams and the league? Not so much. And that was my initial point here: they're the real virtue signalers here. The powers that be in the NBA don't give two shits about BLM, about social justice (neither do the powers that be at ESPN, for that matter). It's a bottom line position for them, nothing more.
And I maintain that their choices in this regard (postponing games, making pro-BLM statements, etc.) is not beneficial to "the cause" at all, not only because of the rank hypocrisy, but also because it robs the players of any real agency.
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