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Post by robeiae on Sept 2, 2021 6:58:19 GMT -5
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Post by michaelw on Sept 2, 2021 8:29:12 GMT -5
I thought Greenwald was pro-leaking. Am I mistaken about that?
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Post by robeiae on Sept 2, 2021 9:38:55 GMT -5
I think he's more anti-"deep state." Leaking that *he thinks* undermines nefarious government actions/programs is good, leaking to punish political opponents is not so good.
But mostly, I linked to his tweet because it made the same initial observation that I wanted to make: leaking phone call transcripts between the US Prez and other world leaders is bullshit, doesn't matter which "side" the current Prez is on.
I'd like to see how many pundits--or Congresscritters--are consistent with their opinions on this.
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Post by Optimus on Sept 2, 2021 13:05:34 GMT -5
Yeah, but I feel like I can always hear Greenwald's tinfoil hat ruffling in the wind every time he blames something on "tHe DeEp StAtE."
It's far more likely that the phone leaks under Trump and Biden were due to the impulsive actions of a very small handful of pissed off workers, not the complex machinations of governmental control conspiracies enacted by the Illuminati.
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Post by robeiae on Sept 3, 2021 6:37:59 GMT -5
It's true, Greenwald is a fan of what Fischer called the "furtive fallacy," the assumption that there are always secret plots and cabals directing--or trying to direct--the course of events. And he has plenty of company, on the left and the right, to be sure. I agree with you: it's unlikely these leaks reflect "deep state machinations." It's far more likely that it's a) some entitled bureaucrat who's pissed off that their pov was overridden or b) some entitled bureaucrat who doesn't like Biden (for political or personal reasons) or c) some of both. But it's still bullshit. It's no way to run a country. That said... it's out there now and there's no fix for it: Yet another perfect call from a US President...dumbass. |
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Post by Optimus on Sept 3, 2021 19:19:21 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm always torn about leaks. A bit of a hypocrite, actually. As a general rule, I don't like them because it reveals holes in our national security and that sort of information is often weaponized.
On the other hand, I also want to know when our government officials are being shady or lying, and leaks are often the only way we do find out these things. For example, audio leaks from phone calls and interviews exposed this type of behaviour from both Trump and Biden (ignoring the Ukraine call for now, Trump's lying about COVID was exposed in the leaked audio of his interview with Woodward and Biden's lying about the situation in Afghanistan was exposed here).
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Post by Vince524 on Sept 3, 2021 20:01:06 GMT -5
As far as leaks are concerned, I think there is a distinction between a leak of information that should remain secret or confidential like the identities of CIA documentsand a conversation that shows a sitting president(Past or present) is attempting to deceive the country. Biden owes it to us to be honest, although I'm hardly shocked he isn't. (Trump, well, I'm shocked if anyone thought the man could not lie.) |
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Post by robeiae on Sept 4, 2021 7:43:46 GMT -5
In theory, I agree with you Vince. But even then--as a citizen who wants to know when I'm being lied to--I still have expectations that the powers-that-be should be good at this stuff, at not having these sorts of leaks. The fact that they're not good at it is really a worse thing than finding out someone told a lie, I think, since national security really is a thing and it really is important.
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Post by Optimus on Sept 4, 2021 14:02:41 GMT -5
You'd think that after it leaked that the President got a blowjob in the Oval Office (blowjob...leaked...heh), the director of the CIA had an affair, and everything that Chelsea Manning leaked, that FedGov would've implemented newer, tighter measures against secrets getting out.
I mean...one would reasonably assume that, but this is FedGov and there's no heights of incompetence and disappointment that they can't reach, no matter who's in charge.
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Post by Vince524 on Sept 10, 2021 16:28:43 GMT -5
Some leaks can't really be safeguarded against. If you know the President is having inappropriate relations in the oral office, there's no legal way to stop that from getting out. What are you going to do, eliminate anyone who knows it?
Documents leaking are something else. There should be far more safeguards in place, but then again you not only have incompetence on the federal level but corruption and CYA up the wazzoo. Remember the servers in the Clinton home?
But yeah, when it comes to doing security badly, nobody does it better.
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