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Post by Vince524 on Feb 27, 2017 12:52:29 GMT -5
Here's the thing. If you objected to the Obama travel expenses because of the bottom line, then this should outrage you. Of course, a lot of the people who were outraged because it was Obama.
If you were unquestionably OK with Obama's travel expenses, then I think a little scrutiny is order here to the claim that you're outraged now. Is it because of the expenses or that it's Trump.
Some things aren't going to be even.
For example, Obama had 2 daughters. They both needed Secret Service protection while at school. Trump has more kids, and some aren't in school at all. So it's going to cost more. Is Don JR. or Ivanka supposed to not live their lives because Trump is president? It would be nice if they kept it in mind that they had to deal with the Secret Service, but when Chelsea Clinton went to college, people didn't throw a shit fit. Trump has 5 kids, only 1 is in school. How much more expensive is it with Barron in NY as opposed to if he were away at college?
Now in terms of Trump going every weekend someplace, that's a different story. If it's not a business trip, then it falls under the same heading at Obama's trips to play golf. So again, if you were up in arms over one, you should be over the other.
I would think that NYC could or at least should be able to get reimbursed for some of those costs from the feds.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 13:12:13 GMT -5
NYC taxpayers should not be responsible for footing the bill. If you want to say the country is, whatever -- but a single city? No.
I have to wonder if Trump ever plans to come back here to live. He is deeply loathed and resented here. As a mere rich asshole, the city absorbed him. We've got plenty of those. But as president, the feeling here -- and not just among the poor or the uber-liberals -- is that he is not only a disaster, but that he is actively fucking over our city.
It is not just that he is a Republican. Keep in mind Giuliani was actually a pretty popular mayor overall (though many disliked him, too, of course, or at least disliked some of his policies). I've never seen anything like the negative feeling for Trump for any other politician.
ETA:
Last night I was at a small Oscars party attended by a couple of Republican investment bankers. Not one of them has a kind word for Trump on anything except Gorsuch and a couple of other cabinet appointments. It's really stunning how few defenders he has here.
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Post by robeiae on Feb 27, 2017 13:50:00 GMT -5
NYC taxpayers should not be responsible for footing the bill. If you want to say the country is, whatever -- but a single city? No. NYC isn't paying for the Secret Service protection. Beyond that, again it is what it is. I'm sure that when Bill Clinton moved into his Harlem offices, that led to extra expenses for the City in a number of different ways, including upping rents for others. And I'm sure that celebrities create extra expenses and hassles for everyday people in the cities where they live all the time. So what? Just because it's a bigger nut now doesn't make into a different sort of nut.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 15:38:17 GMT -5
NYC taxpayers should not be responsible for footing the bill. If you want to say the country is, whatever -- but a single city? No. NYC isn't paying for the Secret Service protection. Beyond that, again it is what it is. I'm sure that when Bill Clinton moved into his Harlem offices, that led to extra expenses for the City in a number of different ways, including upping rents for others. And I'm sure that celebrities create extra expenses and hassles for everyday people in the cities where they live all the time. So what? Just because it's a bigger nut now doesn't make into a different sort of nut. Was Katrina just another rain shower? We have all kinds of celebrities living here in NYC, and it is absolutely NOTHING --NOTHING -- like having the current first family parked permanently on Fifth Avenue. Bill's office in Harlem wasn't at all comparable. i've lived and worked in Manhattan a good many years now. I've never, ever remotely seen anything close to the mess we've got in midtown, (beyond temporary occasions that last for a day or two). Cost-wise, it isn't close. And it's wholly unnecessary. Our police force was overstretched as it was. Looks like we're stuck with the mess, but the entire country should pay for it, not just us. Better yet, Trump should suck it up the way every other president has. He doesn't give a fuck, of course -- but I think he'll find there's a price. He will get no welcome here -- certainly not now, and I doubt when his term is up. The very few socialite supporters he has here have even been getting shunned. www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/style/nikki-haskell-donald-trump-supporter-socialite.html?_r=0. We hates him, precious. Hates him. Eta: By the way, the rising rents and gentrification in Harlem were a thing before Clinton got there and are still a thing. I rather doubt Clinton's offices had much effect one way or the other. They've continued to go up more precipitously than ever.
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Post by robeiae on Feb 27, 2017 17:31:50 GMT -5
Well, I'm not sure exactly what is and isn't a "mess" here, what expenses the taxpayers of New York are on the hook for that is just so outrageous. But really, I don't much care. Again, the family of a politician doesn't have to live the life YOU want them to live. They just don't. Go apeshit about what Trump does or doesn't do, about his golfing and trips to sunny F-L-A. He's an elected representative of the people of this country. He has to answer for those things. But his family--kids, wife, whatever--don't have to answer for jack.
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Post by Don on Feb 27, 2017 19:57:05 GMT -5
I find this whole discussion of how many millions of dollars per month it's ok for our supreme ruler to squander on vacation travel, just what level of widespread inconvenience he's allowed to subject ordinary citizens to, rather depressing.
Maybe with the new resurgance of state's rights, Trump will be OK with NY suing FedGov for expenses.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 20:51:39 GMT -5
Well, I'm not sure exactly what is and isn't a "mess" here, what expenses the taxpayers of New York are on the hook for that is just so outrageous. But really, I don't much care. Again, the family of a politician doesn't have to live the life YOU want them to live. They just don't. Go apeshit about what Trump does or doesn't do, about his golfing and trips to sunny F-L-A. He's an elected representative of the people of this country. He has to answer for those things. But his family--kids, wife, whatever--don't have to answer for jack. No one is criticizing his kid. Barron, age ten, deserves no blame for anything at all, and I wish him nothing but good things. (Frankly, though, I think he'd be better off at the White House than he is here, for several reasons.) His wife, meh, she's an adult, so criticism of her is inbounds, IMO -- but yes, the onus is on Trump, who is the one in office. You might care more if you were living with and paying for Trump's lifestyle choice, as I am. And it's not just me, btw -- there are millions of us living here who resent the fuck out of this, including Republicans. taking aside the hassle (which you, not having to deal with it, can easily pooh-pooh), it is costing NYC taxpayers $500,000 a day (which you, not having to pay for it, can easily pooh-pooh). It's one family versus millions of people. Sorry, it's bullshit, and no other first family has done as anything like it. Moreover, this immense cost and huge inconvenience to millions is for a purely personal reason; it has nothing to do with his job as president or the welfare of our country. He should pay for it. At the very least, the cost should be paid by the federal government, not a single city's taxpayers. That's so obviously unfair that it frankly pisses me off that anyone would dispute it. On the bright side, I can finally safely mix my NYC Republican and Democrat friends socially for the first time in a long while and discuss politics, since they all dislike Trump. There was far more infighting between pro-Clinton and pro-Sanders Democrats during the primaries than there is disagreement about Trump now. I doubt there are many places in the country where so many are united, and perhaps the traffic/cost/etc. issues help that along. Aren't politicians typically popular in their hometowns? Yeah. Not in this case, not even among his own party.
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Post by Don on Feb 28, 2017 4:44:11 GMT -5
Pissing money away like this, disrupting the common people's lives on an every-day basis... for a populist president, there are sure a lot of "let them eat cake" messages coming from this administration.
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Post by robeiae on Feb 28, 2017 7:22:30 GMT -5
Well, I'm not sure exactly what is and isn't a "mess" here, what expenses the taxpayers of New York are on the hook for that is just so outrageous. But really, I don't much care. Again, the family of a politician doesn't have to live the life YOU want them to live. They just don't. Go apeshit about what Trump does or doesn't do, about his golfing and trips to sunny F-L-A. He's an elected representative of the people of this country. He has to answer for those things. But his family--kids, wife, whatever--don't have to answer for jack. No one is criticizing his kid. Barron, age ten, deserves no blame for anything at all, and I wish him nothing but good things. (Frankly, though, I think he'd be better off at the White House than he is here, for several reasons.) His wife, meh, she's an adult, so criticism of her is inbounds, IMO -- but yes, the onus is on Trump, who is the one in office. You might care more if you were living with and paying for Trump's lifestyle choice, as I am. And it's not just me, btw -- there are millions of us living here who resent the fuck out of this, including Republicans. taking aside the hassle (which you, not having to deal with it, can easily pooh-pooh), it is costing NYC taxpayers $500,000 a day (which you, not having to pay for it, can easily pooh-pooh). It's one family versus millions of people. Sorry, it's bullshit, and no other first family has done as anything like it. Moreover, this immense cost and huge inconvenience to millions is for a purely personal reason; it has nothing to do with his job as president or the welfare of our country. He should pay for it. At the very least, the cost should be paid by the federal government, not a single city's taxpayers. That's so obviously unfair that it frankly pisses me off that anyone would dispute it. On the bright side, I can finally safely mix my NYC Republican and Democrat friends socially for the first time in a long while and discuss politics, since they all dislike Trump. There was far more infighting between pro-Clinton and pro-Sanders Democrats during the primaries than there is disagreement about Trump now. I doubt there are many places in the country where so many are united, and perhaps the traffic/cost/etc. issues help that along. Aren't politicians typically popular in their hometowns? Yeah. Not in this case, not even among his own party. Pooh. Pooh. The very article you linked to noted complaints coming out of Palm Beach, so this isn't all on you poor, distressed New Yorkers. And again, I'll note what I said early: I question the numbers out there on stuff like this and travel costs, I really do. Let's look at the one you just mentioned, $500k a day. From your article: Hmmm...$500k for 200 officers...that works out to $2500 per officer, per day. So, five days a week means $12,500 per officer, per week. 52 weeks a year means $650,000 per officer, per year. Pretty fucking good salary there...is that standard pay for police officers in NYC???
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Post by robeiae on Feb 28, 2017 7:37:03 GMT -5
Oh, and maybe I'm mis-remembering, but didn't Chelsea Clinton go away to College in California while her father was President? I bet the school and community she attended had added costs and hassles. Weren't the Bush girls in college in Texas while their father was President? Shouldn't they have all done the right thing and gone to Georgetown to make life easier for everyone outside of DC? If not, shouldn't the Feds have reimbursed the schools and communities involved? Was there a lot of noise in this regard in the past?
Imo, this is yet another indication of a lack of rationality when it comes to Trump: for a good chunk of the population, everything he does or that happens in relation to him is wrong. And not just kinda wrong, but massively, unbelievably wrong.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Feb 28, 2017 7:53:27 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Feb 28, 2017 8:06:29 GMT -5
Outrageous! Has she no decency? Oh, the humanity...
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Post by Vince524 on Feb 28, 2017 13:06:09 GMT -5
Oh, and maybe I'm mis-remembering, but didn't Chelsea Clinton go away to College in California while her father was President? I bet the school and community she attended had added costs and hassles. Weren't the Bush girls in college in Texas while their father was President? Shouldn't they have all done the right thing and gone to Georgetown to make life easier for everyone outside of DC? If not, shouldn't the Feds have reimbursed the schools and communities involved? Was there a lot of noise in this regard in the past? Imo, this is yet another indication of a lack of rationality when it comes to Trump: for a good chunk of the population, everything he does or that happens in relation to him is wrong. And not just kinda wrong, but massively, unbelievably wrong. Yeah, this is pretty much what I was saying. It's a little unusual for a kid as young as Barron to not live in the White House with his father, but it's not the first or only time we've had a 1st kid living someplace other than 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Now if you're like Don, who has an issue with the spending as a whole, that's at least consistent. But protecting a family where the president has more than 1 child is going to cost more than a single child home.
Let's hope Octomom never becomes president.
She's not the first woman to be on her knees in the oval office, but I don't think Bill has ever shared pictures of Monica's visits.
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Post by robeiae on Feb 28, 2017 13:07:58 GMT -5
Try the veal...
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Post by michaelw on Feb 28, 2017 17:23:40 GMT -5
Let's hope Octomom never becomes president. Or Apu from the Simpsons. Thankfully, our wise founders made sure that could never happen.
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