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Post by poetinahat on Mar 17, 2017 0:29:42 GMT -5
These are the things that disturb me the most - that doesn't mean they surprise me the most.
What would surprise me is how these people manage to convince themselves that Trump is a champion of Christianity, when he's about the least Christian personality you could imagine.
And there, I believe, is the rub: it's not about agreeing with the man. It's about common enemies. It won't matter how much he double-crosses them, or how bad things get for them, as long as they still have The Enemy to blame for it all.
So I'm not so confident that the tide is really going to turn against Trump. Not to say it isn't worth trying. But who's actually going to lead the charge? So far, he gets away with everything by spinning more BS. Every time, we think, "This has GOT to be the last straw" -- just before he drops another bale.
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Post by maxinquaye on Mar 17, 2017 0:58:14 GMT -5
I hated it when people compared Trump to Hitler, for reasons I won't bore you people with. It just seemed hyperbolic and… slightly deranged. In my view, America would either get a Mussolini or Franco, or a Berlusconi.
Say what you will of Mussolini or Franco, but they had an intellectual weight that Trump doesn't have. They were deeply wrong, flawed, and bad - but they were intelligent and driven. I don't think Trump is any of that.
Berlusconi wasn't dumb either, and he was that type of category of human that Trump is. The self-styled businessman who entered politics with the conviction that private enterprise could show how government should work. Berlusconi was also carnal, decadent, and corrupt. He kept his political position through ownership of large sectors of Italian private broadcasting media, and once he had control of the Italian state he could nudge the public broadcasters into line.
Ironically, in the beginning I also resisted the urge to think of Trump as a fool. It's easy to fall into the logical trap of either dismissing someone who believes things I don't like as uneducated, unintelligent, or ignorant. Paranthetically, this is a mistake US Liberals are doing. They don't realise they need the Trump voters, and exhortations that all of them are middle aged uneducated racist bigots feels good, but is very damaging. The Liberals need them. And the Liberals are driving those people away, and entrenching them with Trump.
Anyway, I'm coming around to the view that Trump is in fact a deeply stupid man. His intelligence is shallow, and his drive is self-centred. He may be decadent and carnal like Berlusconi, but I don't even think Trump has Berlusconi's obvious intelligence. His stupidity will doom him, and the question now is just how much of US credibility and internal cohesion he will drag down with him as he falls.
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Post by poetinahat on Mar 17, 2017 1:01:23 GMT -5
Funnily enough, a few months back, in the course of a Facebook thread, I referred to Trump as "the fake Gucci handbag version of Berlusconi".
Sigh.
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Post by maxinquaye on Mar 17, 2017 1:06:43 GMT -5
I am so bad at Facebook you people wouldn't believe. I'm on it, but I keep forgetting about it for weeks at a time. Then I remember, and think to myself that I should give a lifesign, or at least update my professional page so people don't think it's dead. Therefore, I've missed all the Facebook drama about Trump. Or most of it. When I log in, there are always reams and reams of posts about how awful Trump is.
I agree, it's awful. I also think that if they think so, they should get out of Facebook and say what they're saying in real life. Like in protests, or join political parties.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 17, 2017 12:29:28 GMT -5
If I had to pick the one thing I loathe most about Donald Trump (and it's not easy only picking one thing), it would be the lying. Trump lies so much and when there's no reason to lie he lies even more. The man is incapable of telling the truth. What makes it worse is how Republicans have fallen in line with the lies because they want to press their political advantage. That, I can understand. What I can't understand is how they don't realize sucking up to Big Don is hurting the overall perception of the GOP. Not that that's a bad thing. Keep on lyin' Donnie and Republicans keep on sucking.
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Post by Amadan on Mar 18, 2017 7:59:32 GMT -5
And there, I believe, is the rub: it's not about agreeing with the man. It's about common enemies. It won't matter how much he double-crosses them, or how bad things get for them, as long as they still have The Enemy to blame for it all That's the key, I'm afraid. His supporters don't care how much he lies, breaks his promises, or acts against their best interests. As long as he makes liberals cry, they're winning.
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Post by robeiae on Mar 19, 2017 14:03:46 GMT -5
That's probably true.
Of course, the other yardstick in all of this is the economy and how people perceive their personal situation in this regard. I suspect that some sort of significant market collapse and big downturn in the economy would swing a lot of people away from Trump. But if people see their fortunes rise--or at least think this is the case--Trump will benefit, regardless of whether or not he deserves to.
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Post by Don on Mar 20, 2017 6:01:35 GMT -5
That's probably true. Of course, the other yardstick in all of this is the economy and how people perceive their personal situation in this regard. I suspect that some sort of significant market collapse and big downturn in the economy would swing a lot of people away from Trump. But if people see their fortunes rise--or at least think this is the case--Trump will benefit, regardless of whether or not he deserves to. Some people's fortunes will continue to rise indefinitely; for almost everyone, though, that elevator's nearing the top, and the cables pulling it up are increasingly frayed. Trump's going to end up holding the bag for the past 10 years of economic policy, sooner or later, and I see no signs whatsoever that he or anyone in his administration either recognizes that fact or has any plans to forestall it for the next four to eight years. There are a number of straws floating around, and while it's a fool's guess as to which of those straws is going to be the one that breaks Wall Street's back when it lands, there's little doubt one will land before his term is up. Economic activity on Main Street doesn't support the inflation-fueled exuberance the market has been showing. That bubble, fueled for years by the absolutely ridiculous interest rate policy by the Federal Reserve, won't last forever, although Janet seems to think she can pull it off. The only question is whether the straw is one of the bubbles already near popping, like the stock market, higher education, commercial real estate, or even homes, the institution of protectionist policies like that stupid "Border Tax," blowing trillions on infrastructure projects that will be poorly targeted and managed, but a real boon to his construction buddies, a ramping-up of the War on Drugs that fuels the expansion of the police state, leading to civil unrest, his stupid bumbling around on the world stage that sees another increase in the waste of domestic resources internationally, or some other, apparently more benign issue, that alerts the players to the handwriting on the wall. Of course this is all based on a "heterodox" economic school, but with an a priori approach that proved accurate in both 1929 and 2007. It ain't rocket science; it's all about incentives, subjective value, marginal utility, and the failure of most people to differentiate between wealth and currency, between society and government. I'll go so far as to say that if Trump's ham-handed handling of the Presidency fails to trigger a major economic downturn during his term in office, I'll go all the way back to the drawing board when it comes to economic philosophy. However, if I'm right, I hope a whole shitload of people take that trip back to the drawing board... the way they should have following the crash of 2007/2008. [Cue Amadan: "What's this got to do with the topic?" ]
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 20, 2017 11:25:17 GMT -5
The infernal lies of Donald J. Trump are threatening to swallow his presidency whole. Is Trump "The Kremlin President?" The FBI would like to know.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 21:22:39 GMT -5
This is really quite extraordinary. Have we ever had a president make such an accusation against another president? Or had the FBI director shoot down a president's assertion as untrue?
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Post by poetinahat on Mar 20, 2017 22:53:17 GMT -5
And how the hell can his party continue to support his perpetual, cataclysmic tantrum?
Never mind sheep; the Republicans look like they've become the party of lemmings.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 21, 2017 14:58:32 GMT -5
And how the hell can his party continue to support his perpetual, cataclysmic tantrum? Never mind sheep; the Republicans look like they've become the party of lemmings. Then I hope they all hold hands as they go over the cliff. From their questioning of FBI Director Comey, the Republicans made it obvious in 15 points where their true concerns lie. It's pretty easy to determine what the Republicans motives are. Make it look as if they're investigating the Trump/Russia connections, but don't actually do any investigating. This is exactly why this investigation must be taken away from the Republican-controlled Congress and turned over to an independent commission to pursue without partisan bias which is exactly why the Republican-controlled Congress will never allow that to happen.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 23, 2017 18:18:21 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 19:25:24 GMT -5
Vince's guy Evan McMullin has also been speaking up strongly and consistently on this and other issues. (On Twitter and elsewhere.) mobile.twitter.com/Evan_McMullin
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Post by robeiae on Apr 4, 2017 8:23:26 GMT -5
www.wsj.com/articles/susan-rice-unmasked-1491262064I predict this entire story--Trump's accusations and the Trump-Russia cabal--is going to quickly sink then disappear entirely from the news cycle. No one--on either side--really wants the public to know all of the facts here.
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