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Post by Don on Mar 24, 2017 22:29:47 GMT -5
@cassandraw, employers are involved in health insurance in the US because of a FedGov wage freeze during WW II. The current mess in healthcare and the "fix" of the ACA is another one of those fine Harry Browne examples of the government breaking legs and then handing out crutches. Just a sampling: and what does economics tell us about the inevitable result of that?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 22:53:46 GMT -5
Given how very much we pay for health care every month, getting the comparatively small cost of an office visit and lab-work for a standard physical and such things as a flu shot thrown in doesn't seem like much, frankly.
I pay a few thousand every year, and that couple of hundred worth of basic services are all I get out of it. They make a mint on me.
I suppose if I didn't have to pay such an insane amount as it is (I have a high deductible plan, yet I still pay about 5K a year in premiums) I might not mind paying for that stuff out of pocket. It's not all that much. But given how much I pay and have paid, yeah, I would resent it.
Another way to look at it: throwing in those relatively small benefits gives me the incentive to go for regular physicals, to get that flu shot, to get that mammogram -- all of which might keep me healthy and/or catch a problem before it becomes huge and costly. I'm health conscious enough so I might go for that stuff regardless. But a lot of people aren't.
So maybe they get that physical just because it's there -- so what? isn't it a good thing --from a cost perspective, too -- to monitor your health and catch problems early?
Don't know about the rest of you, but the preventive services covered by my plan are very basic indeed -- and are the kind of thing that, IMO, it makes sense for a health insurer to encourage. I really don't think it's such a hot idea for the incentive to be "don't go to a doctor unless your intestines are leaking out your anus."
ETA:
I actually know why we started connecting health insurance and employment. What I don't get is why we continue to do it. It really is nonsensical, IMO.
ETA:
Now, having a Cadillac health plan that has all kinds of fancy stuff included may not make financial sense. But I tend to think insurers as well as patients benefit from provided an incentive for people to take basic care of themselves. My insurer gives me $1 a day, up to $240 a year, to take 10k steps a day. It's not much money. But it encourages regular exercise, and regular exercise keeps people healthier, which helps keep their overall healthcare costs down. They're not doing it because they're kind -- they're doing it because healthy people cost less, so they'd rather give me incentives toward healthy habits.
All that said, I've chosen a high deductible plan, and I do pay out of pocket on the rare occasions I require anything that isn't totally basic. I won't hit my deductible unless, heaven forbid, I I have a catastrophe. But a basic physical/well woman exam? Yeah, I think everyone benefits from giving the incentive to go for that sort of stuff.
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Post by maxinquaye on Mar 25, 2017 0:04:06 GMT -5
Okay, that was a joke. But it's quite rousing. Stirs the old bones quite all right. And probably scares Don I'm rather utilitarian when it comes to health care provision. What I want to know is this: does it work, for the purposes it's designed for? What is the purpose it's designed for? Is it to provide everyone with good health care at a reasonable cost? It seems logical then that you need a massive behemoth of a buyer who can land on farmaceutical companies, insurance companies, and all other companies like a Mount Everest size pile of bricks in order to force down prices. It shouldn't be impossible. Most other countries have, more or less, solved the problem. You just have to decide if you think it's right to provide the health care for all. I think it's a no-brainer. Of course it is. Companies, the states, the nations all serve humans. Not the other way around. States, nations, companies that claim existence outside of humanity are abherrations. In my view.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 10:12:43 GMT -5
A fun Trump Tweet: Dear Mr. Trump:
I know you'd rather communicate via Tweet, but I had something very, very important to say, believe me, and of course, it could only be said in courier font, which Twitter doesn't offer. Sad.
Anyway. Just so you know, it is not very reassuring to the millions of THE PEOPLE -- many of them sick, poor, elderly and/or otherwise vulnerable -- currently relying on the ACA to hear you "assure" them that it will explode -- especially as you are simultaneously assuring them that you plan to do nothing to prevent such an explosion.
See, to many of THE PEOPLE, explosions are not actually a good thing. We like to imagine our elected officials in control at the helm, steering the ship to avoid catastrophe rather than gleefully pouring propane and lighting a match. We have Angie for that sort of thing.
So forgive me if I continue to worry, you colossally arrogant, incompetent, irresponsible, immature asshole you.
Sincerely, CassandraW
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Post by Angie on Mar 26, 2017 13:09:19 GMT -5
Bastid better not be trying to take my job.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 13:41:12 GMT -5
Bastid better not be trying to take my job. He would no doubt enjoy it more than his own.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2017 17:08:22 GMT -5
So. The reboot of Trumpcare narrowly passed in the House, getting 217 votes (none of them Democrats, and 20 Republicans voting against it).
I don't have time right now for a detailed commentary, but I want to say this:
I am fucking disgusted that they pushed this fucker through without getting an evaluation from the CBO and without hearings. My understanding is that many of the congress critters viting for it didn't get to read the fucking thing until last night. And it sounds like a goddamn disaster for the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions, not to mention the poor.
Look, it's not like I don't think we can do better than what we currently have. I think we can. But we never will if the highest priority is ramming something -- anything -- through to please party hardliners without giving it the thought it needs and deserves.
That's not being fiscally conservative. That's being an asshole.
Anyway. I'm heading out for the evening. I just wanted to express my disgust.
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Post by Angie on May 4, 2017 17:20:20 GMT -5
I agree with you, 100%. Supposedly some GOP senators are saying the bill is DOA in the Senate, but I'm not counting on anything at the moment.
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Post by ben on May 4, 2017 17:38:41 GMT -5
My FB and Twitter feeds are chock full of peeps saying Congressional representatives (specifically Republican congressmen) are killing people. Is that related to what's being discussed in this thread?
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2017 19:13:41 GMT -5
My FB and Twitter feeds are chock full of peeps saying Congressional representatives (specifically Republican congressmen) are killing people. Is that related to what's being discussed in this thread? That would be my guess. Unless maybe some Congress critters have run amok with axes. Again.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2017 9:07:29 GMT -5
This is hilarious. Trump praised Australia's healthcare system, telling the Australian prime minister "You have better healthcare than we do." www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/donald-trumps-medicare-comment-baffles-us-critics/news-story/2bfbd42f05f78467e3af6b1e7bc21e9fAustralia, of course, has universal healthcare. (Trump has also previously praised Canada's and Scotland's universal healthcare systems. Can dig up cites if you want them.) Does he not understand that he and his Republican congress critters are moving in exactly the opposite direction, and drastically? Yanking away healthcare -- or pricing it unaffordably -- for millions of sick and older people? Doing so in a hastily conceived bill without CBO numbers? Honest to god, I don't think they know what the fuck they are doing. I really don't. I think Trump and a pile of GPO congress critters (not quite all) and Trump's core base have no idea at all in their heads on this beyond a fixed idea that "Obamacare bad! All Obama things bad! Kill!" They're like one of those mindless movie monsters stomping through a city, stepping on buildings and people without noticing or caring, picking up a train full of commuters, only to toss it aside. If I thought they were actually thinking and considering how to bring costs down and make insurance more affordable for people, I'd be more patient. But clearly, that is not their priority. They just care about tearing down what we've got and to hell with the consequences. Their not waiting for CBO numbers, or hell, for congress critters to read the damn thing, says it all. theweek.com/speedreads/696839/republican-congressman-admits-didnt-read-all-ahca-bill-before-voting-yesI wonder very much how many of the over-50 Trump voters realize that if this fucker passes, insurance companies can charge them dramatically higher rates just by virtue of their age. How many realize just how little that risk pool fund will actually cover? That yeah, maybe they won't be mandated to buy insurance, but if they don't, their pre-existing conditions won't be covered? And that the beneficiaries of what they won't get anymore will be the very fat-cat wealthy swamp creatures they've been decrying?
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Post by robeiae on May 5, 2017 10:48:31 GMT -5
I think Trump actually favors universal healthcare, truth be told. I think he's said as much in the past. But he hitched his political wagon to the "repeal Obamacare" crowd, so he's kinda stuck in it, now (which explains why hes been really short with the GOP leadership in the House: he'd just as soon wash his hands of this mess, I think).
So in that regard, I don't find Trump's recent comments at all. They point to a simple reality that even Trump can see (though apparently not a good chunk of his critics): Obamacare is a disaster. The Repub's "fixes" may also be disasters, maybe worse disasters, but that doesn't mitigate just how bad Obamacare really is. All the critics of Trump seem to have completely closed their minds in this regard.
At this point, I'd take single payer in a heartbeat, if I had to choose between Obamacare (or some variation of it) and what the Repubs are offering (because they're stupidly trying to keep the aspects of Obamacare that make it a disaster).
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2017 11:22:34 GMT -5
Ditto. And you might be right about Trump secretly favoring single-payer. (If he had the balls to say so outright and try to push it through? I'd give him some bigly points. That would take some serious political courage.)
It seems to me the Trumpcare bill both seriously fucks people over and is likely untenable as a long-term economic thing. That's what we in the biz like to call "the worst of both worlds." As far as I can see, the only beneficiaries are some wealthy folks who get tax breaks.
I saw some commentators this morning discussing the best/worst outcomes for people under this plan. A 27-year-old entrepreneur making 75K a year might save a couple thousand a year in premiums. But a 60-year old retired married couple making 25K might have premiums that are $43K more (which, obviously, is far more than they can afford). That may or may not be accurate -- I'll wait for the CBO estimates. But if it's even halfway accurate, that is totally fucked up.
I've heard some defenders talking about how if you choose to build a house on a hurricane-prone beach, you should pay more for your choice, blah blah. Well, see, here's the thing. Healthcare is different. We don't choose to get older -- we all fucking will get older -- and we don't choose to get cancer. We don't choose for our kids to be born with a hole in their heart. We don't choose to get hit by a drunk driver and end up in the hospital with catastrophic injuries.
Sure, we can choose whether to have kids. But most people will. Hello, as a society, isn't it in our best interests to encourage people to plan their families (hello birth control), and ensure the kids are healthy (hello maternity care)? I do not have children, nor do I plan to. But I damn well do see why it makes sense for my insurance to cover such things.
Getting the costs of healthcare down would be a tremendously good goal. Making a health care system that is reasonably fair and affordable and is viable in the long term -- a good goal. But this doesn't do anything to address that, as far as I can see. I can't even see that it tries to do so.
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Post by robeiae on May 5, 2017 12:49:04 GMT -5
I really didn't think it was a big secret. Look: www.weeklystandard.com/donald-trump-we-must-have-universal-healthcare/article/557477Here's a series of quotes from him on this issue: www.ontheissues.org/Donald_Trump.htm#Health_CareThere's no doubt that Trump has been running down Obamacare, that he used it to campaign. And I'm not trying to defend him; he used the issue and obviously never had a real solution (and again, Obamacare deserves to be run down, because it's a stupid, awful system imo). I'm just noting that all the "oh my God, Trump praised the Aussie healthcare system" stuff is--like most every thing Trump--being way over done. Trump is not the "Universal HealthCare is TEH EVIL" guy, here.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2017 12:51:46 GMT -5
Yes, but he is the guy applauding this new GOP monstrosity.
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