Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 13:14:45 GMT -5
By the way, I don't think Bolton actually has much to do with Trump's change of heart on Syria. I think it has more to do with the fact that the decision wasn't as popular with conservative media as Trump thought it would be.
Similarly, Trump's stance on the wall has pretty much squat to with our country needing it for security and EVERYTHING to do with his shrinking base that wants a wall because Brown People.
|
|
|
Post by celawson on Jan 8, 2019 13:40:11 GMT -5
The Canadian border is even closer to me! And about the same number of people on a watch list have been caught at it! WE NEED A WALL AT THE NORTHERN BORDER! AND ALL AROUND THE COASTS! BETTER YET, SHUT ALL THE AIRPORTS, SINCE MOST OF THE TERRORISTS COME IN THERE! OH WAIT -- SOME LIVE HERE! BUILD CAMPS FOR THE MUSLIMS! WAIT! SOME GET INDOCTRINATED BY THE INTERNET! SHUT IT DOWN! You know what's fun? While Trump shuts down the government, and government workers aren't being paid, tons of TSA workers are calling in sick. Hey, I actually dislike the TSA security theater myself. But I'm betting you, c.e., think they make us safer, don't you? And even I think that chaos and congestion at airports makes for a great time for terrorists coming in through airports. Because now the security theater is going to be rushed and even crappier than it usually is. Wouldn't it be fun if Trump's grand game of chicken to get the stupid fucking wall resulted in another 9/11? And gee, the only way to get the wall built isn't just a matter of money. As Trump has already said, he'll have to seize private land, override the border states. And the only way he can do all that is giving himself emergency powers. So. Conservative. You guys really fucking think that we have a crisis at the border that justifies this? Let us see your stats and cites. Show me the crisis that justifies this shutdown. Show me the crisis that would justify declaring a state of emergency. And while you're at it, c.e., show me, too, how it gives you confidence that Trump first upends everything to say we're yanking out of Syria immediately, then dithers and changes his mind -- but only after driving out Mattis. Is Bolton now your savior, the guy Trump will listen to, the grown up in the room? And yes, I already know the answer to that, and when he's fired or quits, it will be someone else. There is nothing wrong with wanting a secure physical barrier along a border where a significant amount of drug trafficking, human trafficking, and illegal immigration is occurring (yes, including criminals and gang members). NOTHING wrong with that. Spare me the morality lessons and compassion lessons, Ms. Pelosi. Controlled immigration that benefits our country and is done fairly and lawfully within the resources we have, should be the goal here. This is stupid posturing by the Dems to obstruct Trump, not policy consistent with even what many of them said just a few years ago about needing a secure border. It's juvenile and it should stop, and if Trump needs to declare an emergency to get his wall (or fence or barricade or whatever you want to call it), then FINE with me. And the more the Dems try to obstruct this, the stupider and more hypocritical they look.
As far as Syria, I think the POTUS evolved on this with the help of his visits to the troops, and yes of course, reviewing with his current people including Bolton and Pompeo who maybe know how to discuss things with Trump in a way that he listens and absorbs. Maybe Mattis was too much of a general for Trump's difficult personality, who knows?
An important thing to remember is that yes, Trump tends to make these impulsive declarations, but then he has been known to backtrack or change things after reconsidering. And reconsidering or backtracking after further input or thought is FINE. Just like the wall is FINE.
It's not ideal to make impulsive and drastic policy statements, but maybe this also had the effect of allowing a lot of folks to take a new look at the Syria issue, folks who matter like leaders in Turkey. Folks who might be taking us for granted. Folks who might not have been pulling their own weight in their own region of the world. It's not going to be the U.S. all the time, and that is a good thing and consistent with Trump's ideas for a long time. But it's not going to be the U.S. pulling out everything immediately, and that is also a good thing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 14:03:51 GMT -5
Cites please? For this:
And I'm not talking about a partisan article in the Federalist saying those things are a problem. I want cites with verifiable stats showing the extent of this alleged problem as it relates to our southern border. Articles are fine -- providing that they are citing back to specific, verifiable, sourced figures that can be checked and put into context. As you may have noticed, this administration's "facts" don't necessarily jibe with reality.
We're talking about imposing a state of emergency and using eminent domain to build the wall. Let's see your cites showing how yuuuuge these problems you cite are.
By the way, did you know the Senate unanimously agreed on a spending bill, Dems and Republicans, until Trump threw his temper tantrum? And that after that, when Pelosi presented that identical bill to the Senate, McConnell refused to even look at it?
Trumpy, Trumpy, uber alles.
And he's not capable of evolving or learning. That's why he's bleeding all the decent people in his administration. That's why he can't hire any new ones. The best anyone can do is very temporarily hold him at bay or distract him. But sure, hey, why NOT give him emergency powers to build a $25 billion wall?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 14:08:01 GMT -5
Here, I"ll give you a head start:
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 14:13:02 GMT -5
Oh, and while you're cheering on that very conservative measure of Trump declaring a state of emergency to get the Wall built, you might consider what Rick Wilson says in his thread here:
Grant the presidency this kind of power and we will never take it back again.
I hate this freaking wall. But even if I didn't, I'd be horrified that a president was talking about declaring a state of emergency to get it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 14:21:33 GMT -5
And by the way, for the thousandth time at least -- Dems in Congress STILL want a secure border. A secure border does not = a $25 billion dollar wall.
You understand, right, that it even isn't simply a matter of finding 25 billion in the budget? That to build it, you'll have to take private land away from unwilling land owners, override local and state authorities and residents who don't want it, that there are environmental problems, that even if you got it built there would be huge ongoing costs in maintaining it and staffing it?
So, make your cites for the problems the wall is supposed to save good -- they have to overcome all of that.
|
|
|
Post by markesq on Jan 8, 2019 14:26:33 GMT -5
Yes, I'd like some evidence that a wall is needed, and would prove useful in preventing any of those purported problems. I mean, if you're advocating for spenind public money, the burden, imo, is on you to show why it's necessary.
Also, ce, I'd like to know why you think the Dems are the problem when they are, effectively, just holding Trump to one of his campaign promises: that Mexico will pay for the wall. How's that working out?
|
|
|
Post by nighttimer on Jan 8, 2019 15:29:40 GMT -5
And while you're at it, c.e., show me, too, how it gives you confidence that Trump first upends everything to say we're yanking out of Syria immediately, then dithers and changes his mind -- but only after driving out Mattis. Is Bolton now your savior, the guy Trump will listen to, the grown up in the room? And yes, I already know the answer to that, and when he's fired or quits, it will be someone else. Morality and Compassion lessons, you say? Oh, you mean like the morality of separating infants and toddlers from their mothers and the compassion of children in cages and the 22 immigrants who have died in ICE detention camps? Oh, you don't mean that total lack of morality and compassion lessons, celawson? Well, be specific!
Controlled immigration is one thing. How to achieve it is another. The problem with illegals is greater with those who come to the U.S. and overstay their visas. They came here legally and should go home, but they just stay here. And Trump allows it because its easier to scare his White people base with Of course, that's a lot harder for Trump to demagogue and shout "boo!" for his very small base of support (hello, celawson!) to start making wee-wee in their undies.
The truth is a lot different from the bald-faced lies Trump will tell tonight in prime time. Now everyone knows that Team Trump is fact-adverse, but what the Orange Cheeto won't tell y'all tonight is as usual he's focused on the wrong fucking thing. And you are too.
To you maybe, but then you're not a Dem. It's the Repubs who look stupid and hypocritical. Stupid because Trump's $5 million ransom to reopen the federal government is bullshit and they know it's bullshit Hypocritical because $5 billion won't build the fucking wall. Last year the GOP Senate tried to authorize $25 billion for the fucking wall and even that number was likely a lowball number.
Soooooooo...does this mean Mexico ISN'T paying for the wall?
As far as Syria, I think the POTUS evolved on this with the help of his visits to the troops, and yes of course, reviewing with his current people including Bolton and Pompeo who maybe know how to discuss things with Trump in a way that he listens and absorbs. Maybe Mattis was too much of a general for Trump's difficult personality, who knows?
An important thing to remember is that yes, Trump tends to make these impulsive declarations, but then he has been known to backtrack or change things after reconsidering. And reconsidering or backtracking after further input or thought is FINE. Just like the wall is FINE.
Oh, is "FINE" is the Word of the Day? Okay. Here's another FINE for ya.
“I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. The press has treated them absolutely unfairly.
“You also had some very FINE people on both sides.”
Donald Trump is a vile and disgusting pile of puke. And the more he is the president of his base who love his bigotry the less he is president of the rest of the country.
Sure. Right up until Trump reads an Ann Coulter tweet telling him to get out of Syria or Rand Paul meets up and tells him Lindsay Graham is a spineless little dweeb and to get out of Syria or Vladimir "The Bod" Putin calls Trump on his flip phone and tells him to get out of Syria. Nobody knows who's calling the shots in the White House. Not when foreign policy is made by rage-tweeting after watching Faux News.
Trump is a spineless jellyfish with no core convictions and when pressured, He. Will. Fold. He'll fold on the shutdown, he'll fold on Syria and he'll fold on the wall.
Bet that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 8:07:33 GMT -5
So unfair of the mean, mean libs and never-Trumpers to criticize Trump's Syria policy when it is everything all at once! Pick a policy you like and someone in the administration has said that's what it is! Contradictory be damned!
(Seriously, that tweet sums it up: since Mattis quit, this administration has said all of those things.)
|
|
|
Post by markesq on Jan 10, 2019 8:50:33 GMT -5
Only the best people.
|
|