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Post by Optimus on Jun 21, 2017 17:14:48 GMT -5
This isn't a good result for Dems. But I disagree that it's a horrible result, or that it's a particularly good result for Repubs. This is a seat they carried not long ago by something like a 20 point spread, if memory serves. They carried it this time by a 3 point spread. This is a district where normally speaking Dems wouldn't be anywhere fucking close. The fact that they were IMO bodes ill for the Repubs in districts where it is closer. This was talked about on MSNBC today (yes, I know. Why do I keep doing that to myself?) and my man Steve Kornacki addressed this as wellj (though he seemed noticeably more contrite and realistic today). According to him, Repubs won the district by such a huge margin in the last election because the only Dem candidate on the ticket was someone who spent relatively no money on his campaign and was so unknown that several media outlets at the time couldn't even find a picture of him to run on the news. Given that, I can't really tell what this says about the GOP or Dems in that district, because there's nothing of substance to compare it to. If I recall correctly (and I could be wrong here) this same seat will be up for regular election again in 2018, so I think we'll be better able to gauge what changes, if any, are happening among that district's electorate.
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Post by Optimus on Jun 21, 2017 17:31:45 GMT -5
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Post by celawson on Jun 22, 2017 12:06:01 GMT -5
This is just not a surprise. Handel lived in the district for years, Osoff never did. And really, in the trenches of regular humans (not elite pundits/newspeople/politicians), things just aren't so bad since Trump was elected. As a matter of fact, my retirement fund is looking pretty good, thank you very much. And every day that tiny unimportant stuff is blown out of proportion by the left (Trump's poor person comment, covfefe, Melania taking a while to move into the White House, Trump's comments to Comey, etc. etc. ), people are becoming weary and even disgusted with the constant stupid irrelevant attacks. And I suspect they are becoming more sympathetic to a man who is not a politician trying to be POTUS while continuing being attacked on many sides, mostly unfairly. And truly, this RUSSIA stuff is getting completely tiresome and ridiculous Yes, investigate Russia, but for the love of God quit wasting time and resources trying to tie Trump to any collusion. You would have found it by now! I actually love Trump's ability to be blunt and frank with things such as the Paris Climate Accord, or the UN, or NATO, or the London Mayor (get your heads out of the sand, Londoners). And to be perfectly honest, I like him more now than when I voted for him. (To partially borrow a line from Cass - Ban me if you must ) Of course I don't agree with everything he does or says, but for this conservative, I agree with enough and I know he's doing better things than Hillary would have been doing. And I do think he's going to grow into being a better POTUS. The Dems are in big trouble. Maybe they should slow their constant barrage of petty attacks against the administration and use that energy to figure out their own issues.
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Post by Angie on Jun 22, 2017 12:41:09 GMT -5
My whole family aside from my sister and me are conservative. I'm surrounded by Republicans every day, most of whom voted for Trump because they are vehemently anti-Clinton. I've heard lots of anti-Obama and anti-Clinton rhetoric, before and after the election.
But you are the first conservative I know, even tangentially, who says they like Trump more now than on election day. Most of the die-hard Republican conservatives in my circle loathe him. I truly don't get what there is to like.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2017 13:04:30 GMT -5
My whole family aside from my sister and me are conservative. I'm surrounded by Republicans every day, most of whom voted for Trump because they are vehemently anti-Clinton. I've heard lots of anti-Obama and anti-Clinton rhetoric, before and after the election. But you are the first conservative I know, even tangentially, who says they like Trump more now than on election day. Most of the die-hard Republican conservatives in my circle loathe him. I truly don't get what there is to like. Same here. The only conservative I knew, other than you, c.e., who ever liked Trump was my brother. He still likes him OK, but he's disappointed -- though he still holds out hope Trump will live up to his expectations. Certainly he doesn't like him more. True, most of my conservative friends are libertarian-leaning conservatives of the ilk of Rob or Haggis. And lots of them, of course, hail from or live in NYC, where Trump has never been beloved, as a Democrat or conservative. (If he is a "conservative" -- most conservatives I know dispute that.). Still -- the polls seem to support that Trump's support is dropping, not increasing, among Republicans as well as independents. Interestingly, my brother's girls all hate Trump. Doesn't matter much now. But in 2020, the eldest will be voting age. She said all her friends hate Trump, and their idea of the Republican party is Trump. Mind you, this is in the rust belt, not NYC. Anecdotal, yes -- but I don't think it's all that healthy for the GOP to have young voters associate the party with Trump. I dunno, c.e . -- it's my opinion the Republican party secured the present at the expense of its core values and its long term future as a party.
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Post by celawson on Jun 22, 2017 14:01:32 GMT -5
Well, when I voted for him, I didn't like him at all. I was intrigued by the idea of a non-politician becoming POTUS, but yeah I was definitely voting more against Clinton than for Trump. It was not easy to punch that ballot, and I had not made up my mind even while walking into the voting booth. But these relentless attacks, many of which are obviously exaggerated and unfair, are making me sympathize with him. And my respect is growing for his non-wimpiness. I think most of the prominent main stream Republicans are pretty wimpy when you get right down to it. And a lot of people are too intimidated to admit they have some like for Trump. I was for a while. I'm less so now, mostly due to the viciousness of the opposition. I'm expecting Trump to make mistakes, but I'd rather he make some mistakes than simply be a pawn. And I like many of the people he's chosen for his admin.
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Post by robeiae on Jun 22, 2017 16:04:37 GMT -5
I dunno, c.e . -- it's my opinion the Republican party secured the present at the expense of its core values and its long term future as a party. I can see how it might seem that way. But remember, the Repubs already had the House, a majority of Governors, and a majority of State chambers prior to Trump. It's long term future is still linked to these things, more than any one single politician, even a President. After all, the party survived Nixon. And the Dem party survived Carter. Because as much as people love to dredge up the past, when it comes to political parties, the voting public is still fundamentally short-sighted, imo. That's always been the case.
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Post by robeiae on Jun 22, 2017 16:10:59 GMT -5
And I like many of the people he's chosen for his admin. I think some are okay. Some suck on ice, imo. But then I thought that about the last two admins' people, as well. And while the idea of a non-politician becoming President is an idea that resonates with me, I draw the line at grifters and Reality TV stars becoming President. That said, Trump will probably do some things that I like, most assuredly, things that Clinton would never have done (but things Johnson may have done). And if he would just STFU for a while, I might even be a little ambivalent towards him. But he can't do that, because he HAS to be the center of attention ALL THE TIME. That's not a good look for a President, imo.
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Post by Amadan on Jun 22, 2017 16:12:52 GMT -5
So how come the viciousness of the opposition to Obama and the Clintons never made you more sympathetic to them?
As for Trump being "non-wimpy" I think that you are mistaking a total lack of self-awareness and humility for courage. Trump sticks to his guns not because he has a principled position and is determined to weather it out, but because he's simply incapable of imagining that he's wrong or that anyone but a low-life loser could find fault with him.
I do find your admiration of Trump baffling. Other than the obvious fact that he's not a Democrat, he actually subscribes to almost none of the values you claim to profess. The only thing he seems to be doing that actually advances your cause is "Make liberals cry."
As I said before the election (on another board, where I got reamed for it), I might enjoy the schadenfreude of a Trump Presidency, but schadenfreude is piss-poor consolation for watching your government get wrecked.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2017 18:45:38 GMT -5
I dunno, c.e . -- it's my opinion the Republican party secured the present at the expense of its core values and its long term future as a party. I can see how it might seem that way. But remember, the Repubs already had the House, a majority of Governors, and a majority of State chambers prior to Trump. It's long term future is still linked to these things, more than any one single politician, even a President. After all, the party survived Nixon. And the Dem party survived Carter. Because as much as people love to dredge up the past, when it comes to political parties, the voting public is still fundamentally short-sighted, imo. That's always been the case. True. But the voting public at large also tends to not have a clue who their representatives are, except for the president, which is why so many can't be bothered to vote other than in presidential elections. If you are not a really hard-core, utterly sold Republican party loyalist who never thinks beyond that (and yes, there are plenty of those too) the president being a bully and a clown has an effect. And since Trump is such a blustering explosion-a-day attention whore, it's hard to notice much else. Not to mention his chaos is affecting how much the Republican congress can actually get done. Nixon was corrupt, Carter was ineffectual. But they were both intelligent men who had some notion of the dignity that came with their office (I'd also go so far as to say that Carter was a good man with good intentions). Neither was the blustering clown car that is Trump.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2017 18:53:39 GMT -5
And I like many of the people he's chosen for his admin. I think some are okay. Some suck on ice, imo. But then I thought that about the last two admins' people, as well. And while the idea of a non-politician becoming President is an idea that resonates with me, I draw the line at grifters and Reality TV stars becoming President. That said, Trump will probably do some things that I like, most assuredly, things that Clinton would never have done (but things Johnson may have done). And if he would just STFU for a while, I might even be a little ambivalent towards him. But he can't do that, because he HAS to be the center of attention ALL THE TIME. That's not a good look for a President, imo. agree with this -- though I'd say more of Trump's people suck on ice than any of his predecessors in recent memory. And he's still got a zillion spots for which he hasn't even nominated anyone. It's mind-boggling. All I can say it, he should probably not move back to NYC after his term is over. He will be hissed in the streets. Hiring his son's wedding planner -- the one with the fake law degree on her resume and a mention of attending Yale when she never did -- to oversee Federal housing in NY was pretty much the final fucking straw to show us he does not give a fuck about us.
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Post by Vince524 on Jun 22, 2017 18:56:23 GMT -5
During the election, I remember seeing some on the conservative side, the Never Trumpers, that said that it might be better to go against Trump and lose the election to Clinton, and then come back next election and try again with someone more.... sane? I felt that way as well. Not sure if I'm a conservative, as I'm pro choice, pro marriage equality and a few other things, but I'm certainly more conservative than many.
I have seen some of the FB peeps who are pro trump continue to be pro trump. One person I never saw be political before. I also see many who were very pro clinton believing everything bad said about him without fail.
I voted against 'em both and I'm glad I did. I think Trump might do a couple of things I agree with, and great if he does. So would have Hilary. But I couldn't support either.
I try and be fair, and I'm sure I fail, but Trump still scares the Cofveve out of me.
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