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Post by Christine on Nov 22, 2016 6:22:11 GMT -5
I know your schtick, Don. Got it bloody well memorized. Still disagree.: p
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Post by Don on Nov 22, 2016 6:29:30 GMT -5
I know your shtick, Don . Got it bloody well memorized. Still disagree.: p Good. I enjoy a good disagreement, Christine. Now why do you disagree? Is it just a feeling, or have you got a factual counterpoint to Public Choice Theory?
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Post by Christine on Nov 22, 2016 6:46:06 GMT -5
I got a feeling...
Woooo Hooooo
I'm down with more efficient government. I have said before, government is usually 20 or more years behind in technology, and bureaucratic bloat is a huge problem.
I reject the idea that all the pols are out to trick us and government is inherently evil and the people will always lose (which is the sentiment I originally responded to). We can have, and at times do have, government that works.
ETA: in addition, I like to focus on solutions to the above problems, because there is only so much "it's all rigged" and "lol, suckers" discourse to be had before it seems like we're content with the world crumbling around us so we can say, "ha ha, told ya so!"
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Post by Amadan on Nov 22, 2016 11:43:53 GMT -5
Regarding Sessions being racist -- we've got hearsay from 30 years ago, and we've got decades of his work and words since then. And that work includes prosecuting the KKK to the full extent of the law including insisting on the death penalty for a klansman (who was the son of the Alabama KKK leader) who killed a black man, acknowledging and working to address bias against blacks in policing as early as 2001, filing several cases for desegregation in Alabama schools as a U.S. Attorney, spearheading giving Rosa Parks the Congressional Gold Medal. And he is on record many times speaking against racism and discrimination such as in housing. If we're trying to be unbiased here, for just a moment, can anyone imagine knowing the KKK well enough during his time prosecuting them for murder, that he could make a sarcastic comment such as "I thought the KKK was OK until I found out they smoked pot." I mean SARCASM. Please. It's like saying, "I liked ISIS until they destroyed that library." Come on, folks. The evidence for him being actively racist is circumstantial, but it still does not look good, and people have been disqualified for office for much less. He now seems to be walking back some of his "jokes," but the picture I get is of a cranky old white conservative who probably did grow up calling black people "boy" and maybe hasn't completely left behind that way of thinking, which sometimes manifests in his actual words. Does that mean he's a KKK booster, as many are trying to portray him? No, but I don't think the concern is just manufactured outrage either.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 11:50:36 GMT -5
As with so many things, the truth likely lies somewhere between the pooh-poohing and the hysteria.
When in doubt, I go with disdain or disgust. That's generally safe.
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Post by Amadan on Nov 22, 2016 11:56:19 GMT -5
I know your shtick, Don . Got it bloody well memorized. Still disagree.: p Good. I enjoy a good disagreement, Christine . Now why do you disagree? Is it just a feeling, or have you got a factual counterpoint to Public Choice Theory? If someone rolls their eyes because you're going on about the One Ring again, responding with a demand for a detailed refutation of Public Choice Theory strikes me as a wee bit disingenuous. Spouting buzzwords and snide allusions to the irrationality of the public (not quite using the word "sheeple" but one can always sense it implied) is not an actual fact-based argument.
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Post by Vince524 on Nov 22, 2016 13:15:54 GMT -5
As with so many things, the truth likely lies somewhere between the pooh-poohing and the hysteria. When in doubt, I go with disdain or disgust. That's generally safe. I like a good old fashioned sneer myself.
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Post by Vince524 on Nov 22, 2016 13:20:40 GMT -5
The evidence for him being actively racist is circumstantial, but it still does not look good, and people have been disqualified for office for much less. He now seems to be walking back some of his "jokes," but the picture I get is of a cranky old white conservative who probably did grow up calling black people "boy" and maybe hasn't completely left behind that way of thinking, which sometimes manifests in his actual words. Does that mean he's a KKK booster, as many are trying to portray him? No, but I don't think the concern is just manufactured outrage either. The problem with the accusations are, how do you prove or disprove them? Someone says he said one thing, he said in some cases it was a joke, others that he didn't say the thing. I can see the KKK pot smoking thing as a joke. Whether it was funny or not is perspective, but I can give him the benefit of the doubt there.
Are there provable actions that show him to be racist?
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Post by Amadan on Nov 22, 2016 13:43:11 GMT -5
The problem with the accusations are, how do you prove or disprove them? Someone says he said one thing, he said in some cases it was a joke, others that he didn't say the thing. I can see the KKK pot smoking thing as a joke. Whether it was funny or not is perspective, but I can give him the benefit of the doubt there.
Are there provable actions that show him to be racist?
What would be a provable action? It can be hard to "prove" anyone is a racist. Racism is a continuum, not a binary state, and often what you have is a pattern of behavior that is open to interpretation and the fuzziness of memory. You don't often catch someone wearing a white hood or dropping the n-word on videotape. Sessions, being a career bureaucrat and politician, would certainly have been too savvy to write down something like "I believe in racial segregation" even if he believes it. So no, probably no one can prove that Sessions is a closet Klansman, or even that he harbors any animosity towards black people. At most, they can prove he's said some problematic things (and been accused of saying others). It probably won't change anyone's opinion one way or the other - if you were already inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, you still will, and if you already found him suspect, you still will.
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Post by celawson on Nov 23, 2016 1:47:29 GMT -5
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Post by celawson on Nov 23, 2016 18:28:33 GMT -5
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tanstaafl
Pundit
Retired 11/01/2016 and loving it!
Posts: 91
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Post by tanstaafl on Nov 23, 2016 19:22:34 GMT -5
I put more weight to that letter than I do to the other accusations.
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