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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 21:00:28 GMT -5
One thing that helped Kaepernick win respect in my eyes was his willingness to pay the price that came with his protest. He had to know his career could take a big hit, and he did it all the same.
I'm wondering whether now that his protest is picking up more support -- and especially now that people (even those critical of him) are pissed off at Trump for his remarks on it -- some team owners might not be rethinking whether there's a spot on their rosters for him after all. It's all about the bottom line for them, I suspect, and if he's not a detriment to that after all...
I admit I'm not enough of a football fan to assess his playing ability, but from what I hear, there are worse players out there, and some teams where he'd be an asset.
Heh. It would be funny if Trump's bullshit actually ended up helping Kaepernick.
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Post by robeiae on Sept 25, 2017 9:22:17 GMT -5
Well, I think it's fair to say that Trump's bullshit is already helping Kaepernick's cause, as it were, to some degree. It's probably also going to hurt the NFL in some ways, as well, from a dollars and cents perspective, but that's something that can be turned around in the long run.
I have to admit that I'm largely done with the NFL. I'll take a look at scores, at highlights, but the NFL n longer gets any of my entertainment dollars. This has nothing to do with the current stuff, to be sure, but the current stuff isn't going to draw me back in, even to make a point. It's just another reason--for me--to stay away. I doubt I'm alone in this regard.
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Post by nighttimer on Sept 25, 2017 22:18:05 GMT -5
I get what it's about, but right now all anyone is talking about is Trump. As far as the flag being a cloth, it is more than that. It's a symbol. Standing for it is a sign of respect to what it represents. Many see taking a knee as a sign of disrespect. That's fact. If Kaepernick is okay with that, then fine. But people see things differently. oh, and yes NT, it's opinion. So is your take that I'm wrong. I can respect a difference of opinion. I don't think Kaepernick is wrong, I just don't personally think it's changing much or worse the perceived slight. The only one I think is dead wrong here is Trump. No, that's not so. You clearly think the players taking a knee and not standing for the national anthem are wrong. You're trying to equivcate as you couch the critcism as "Many see..." and "people see things differently" or "it's a petty reason to take a slap at the many who have sacrificed their lives" You've been hyper-critical of the protests and have said little to nothing to the White president calling out Kaepernick and other Black NFL players as "sons of bitches." Personally, I don't think you want to believe Kaepernick has engaged the nation in a discussion it has never wanted to have because if it did, it would be forced to confront the ugly truth of how Black lives are taken without punishment by police officers. So let's talk about the flag and the national anthem and crap like that because its a diversion. Trump knows that and you do too. It makes no never mind. The truth will out. For a guy whose protest did no good according to you, we are here because it was Trump, not Kaepernick who made this a national issue again. Kap didn't call Trump a SOB. But Trump did. Partly to feed the hungry beast into a frenzied state where there is no NFL franchise and where Trump journeyed on the behalf of Luther Strange, an appointed senator who is going to lose his seat this time tomorrow to a religious zealot. While we are talking about this, we're not talking about North Korea viewing Trump's doltish insults and threats as a "declaration of war" or this administration's meager response to the devastation in Puerto Rico or the usage of Ivanka and Jared of private email accounts to conduct White House business or the latest Kill Obamacare cluster fuck. And we're certainly not talking about cops continuing to kill Black people. Which is why we ended up here in the first place.
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Post by michaelw on Sept 26, 2017 3:28:18 GMT -5
I have some thoughts on this, but I'll just share one for now:
Last month, neo-Nazis rallied in Charlottesville and chanted "Blood and Soil" and "Jews will not replace us." Trump, at the time, never expressed the kind of anger he's now expressing toward Black athletes who took a knee for the national anthem. He never called them "sons of bitches." He never said they should be fired from their jobs, either.
Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I still believe the president of the country should have a sense of moral perspective. Or put another way: a sense of moral proportion which expresses the idea that some things are more worthy of anger than others. I think for any normal person, this is not an especially difficult test. The Holocaust was worse than X, or slavery was worse than Y, and so on.
The president--in my view--has shown an extremely backwards sense of moral proportion. He thinks a knee on the ground is crossing a line, but a knee in Freddie Gray's back is comparatively meaningless. And he thinks that athletes who disagree deserve more scorn than neo-Nazis, many of whom would not hesitate to re-ignite the worst atrocities of history.
If that's not a moral disgrace, then I really don't know what is.
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Post by robeiae on Sept 26, 2017 5:57:14 GMT -5
Here's a question that I sort of hinted at in a recent FB post:
Many of the people complaining about players not standing for the anthem watch football games on TV, at home, in a bar, or what have you. How many of them remove their hats, put their hand over their heart and stand for the national anthem when it comes on TV?
My guess: about 0.
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Post by Vince524 on Sept 26, 2017 6:14:38 GMT -5
I get what it's about, but right now all anyone is talking about is Trump. As far as the flag being a cloth, it is more than that. It's a symbol. Standing for it is a sign of respect to what it represents. Many see taking a knee as a sign of disrespect. That's fact. If Kaepernick is okay with that, then fine. But people see things differently. oh, and yes NT, it's opinion. So is your take that I'm wrong. I can respect a difference of opinion. I don't think Kaepernick is wrong, I just don't personally think it's changing much or worse the perceived slight. The only one I think is dead wrong here is Trump. No, that's not so. You clearly think the players taking a knee and not standing for the national anthem are wrong. You're trying to equivcate as you couch the critcism as "Many see..." and "people see things differently" or "it's a petty reason to take a slap at the many who have sacrificed their lives" You've been hyper-critical of the protests and have said little to nothing to the White president calling out Kaepernick and other Black NFL players as "sons of bitches." Personally, I don't think you want to believe Kaepernick has engaged the nation in a discussion it has never wanted to have because if it did, it would be forced to confront the ugly truth of how Black lives are taken without punishment by police officers. So let's talk about the flag and the national anthem and crap like that because its a diversion. Trump knows that and you do too. It makes no never mind. The truth will out. For a guy whose protest did no good according to you, we are here because it was Trump, not Kaepernick who made this a national issue again. Kap didn't call Trump a SOB. But Trump did. Partly to feed the hungry beast into a frenzied state where there is no NFL franchise and where Trump journeyed on the behalf of Luther Strange, an appointed senator who is going to lose his seat this time tomorrow to a religious zealot. While we are talking about this, we're not talking about North Korea viewing Trump's doltish insults and threats as a "declaration of war" or this administration's meager response to the devastation in Puerto Rico or the usage of Ivanka and Jared of private email accounts to conduct White House business or the latest Kill Obamacare cluster fuck. And we're certainly not talking about cops continuing to kill Black people. Which is why we ended up here in the first place.Am so glad I have you around to tell me what I think, as sometimes I don't know. And that bolded part of what I quoted of you, that's something I agree with. We're not. Wasn't that the point of this? I've watched Twitter on this with interest. I don't see much in way of that. I see people offended, I see people angry at Trump and urging all to #takeaknee, but I don't see much discussion about the issue that was supposed to be front and center.
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Post by nighttimer on Sept 26, 2017 17:45:46 GMT -5
No, that's not so. You clearly think the players taking a knee and not standing for the national anthem are wrong. You're trying to equivcate as you couch the critcism as "Many see..." and "people see things differently" or "it's a petty reason to take a slap at the many who have sacrificed their lives" You've been hyper-critical of the protests and have said little to nothing to the White president calling out Kaepernick and other Black NFL players as "sons of bitches." Personally, I don't think you want to believe Kaepernick has engaged the nation in a discussion it has never wanted to have because if it did, it would be forced to confront the ugly truth of how Black lives are taken without punishment by police officers. So let's talk about the flag and the national anthem and crap like that because its a diversion. Trump knows that and you do too. It makes no never mind. The truth will out. For a guy whose protest did no good according to you, we are here because it was Trump, not Kaepernick who made this a national issue again. Kap didn't call Trump a SOB. But Trump did. Partly to feed the hungry beast into a frenzied state where there is no NFL franchise and where Trump journeyed on the behalf of Luther Strange, an appointed senator who is going to lose his seat this time tomorrow to a religious zealot. While we are talking about this, we're not talking about North Korea viewing Trump's doltish insults and threats as a "declaration of war" or this administration's meager response to the devastation in Puerto Rico or the usage of Ivanka and Jared of private email accounts to conduct White House business or the latest Kill Obamacare cluster fuck. And we're certainly not talking about cops continuing to kill Black people. Which is why we ended up here in the first place.Am so glad I have you around to tell me what I think, as sometimes I don't know. And that bolded part of what I quoted of you, that's something I agree with. We're not. Wasn't that the point of this? I've watched Twitter on this with interest. I don't see much in way of that. I see people offended, I see people angry at Trump and urging all to #takeaknee, but I don't see much discussion about the issue that was supposed to be front and center. Obviously, we don't have the same sort of social media news feed if you're not seeing it. My Facebook and Twitter feeds are full of links, photos, memes and debates about Colin Kaepernick and the knee he took to protest police brutality. But that's MY feed. I can't speak to what you're seeing (or not), but while I'm not here to tell you what you think, I'll hazard a guess as to the absence of any discussion about the issue Kaepernick put his career at risk for and the NFL ended his career, might mean. 1. The people in your social media circle have no interest or opinion about Colin Kaepernick or his cause. Possible, but in lieu of Trump's race-baiting, shit-stirring, somewhat unlikely. 2. Everyone in your social media circle agrees with you it's all about disrespect to the flag, the anthem and our troops, so there's nothing to debate.3. You're not seeing it because you're not looking for it. 4. If you're not seeing much discussion about the issue that was supposed to be front and center, maybe that's because you haven't made it front and center and sparked the debate?Those are my guesses. Only you know if any of them are true or all of them are wrong.
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Post by robeiae on Sept 26, 2017 17:46:35 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 11:32:10 GMT -5
Opinion of a man who underwent torture for five years rather than betray his country:
ETA:
Btw, I officially declare that this video meets the stringent CassandraW adorable standards.
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Post by Vince524 on Sept 27, 2017 11:42:50 GMT -5
It's probably an honor, don't offer sort of deal, but I work for a competitor and I heard today managers asking about it, so the discussion is on if we'll offer it. (I'd wager no)
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Post by nighttimer on Sept 27, 2017 12:53:38 GMT -5
It's probably an honor, don't offer sort of deal, but I work for a competitor and I heard today managers asking about it, so the discussion is on if we'll offer it. (I'd wager no) If you working for a competitor of Direct TV, you don't have the NFL Sunday Ticket package to offer, so what's to discuss? I have Direct TV and have had it for at least seven years. I don't pay a dime for the Sunday Ticket anymore. I got hip to that particular hustle a few years ago when I finally got tired of paying nearly $400 a year for the privilege of watching the Niners get the snot beat out of them. Now I call them up, navigate through the damned phone tree, tell the rep I'm tired of paying these stupid prices and that I'm going to cancel, switch to a competitor or go to Netflix or Hulu. That gets me some sort of discount, but I'm still not happy. That's when I ask to speak with a Retention Specialist and that is the person with the keys to the drawer where all the real goodies are kept. For the last three years I haven't paid a dime for the Sunday Ticket and I don't intend to ever again. So if some butt-hurt crybabies are pouting because those nasty ol' owners and players won't act right and they want to cancel their Sunday Ticket, go right the fuck ahead, you poor widdle snowflakes. Stick to the Whiter-than snow NASCAR with Richard "I'll fire anyone who takes a knee" Petty and the rest of the rednecks. Everybody wins.
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Post by Vince524 on Sept 27, 2017 14:39:30 GMT -5
It's probably an honor, don't offer sort of deal, but I work for a competitor and I heard today managers asking about it, so the discussion is on if we'll offer it. (I'd wager no) If you working for a competitor of Direct TV, you don't have the NFL Sunday Ticket package to offer, so what's to discuss? I have Direct TV and have had it for at least seven years. I don't pay a dime for the Sunday Ticket anymore. I got hip to that particular hustle a few years ago when I finally got tired of paying nearly $400 a year for the privilege of watching the Niners get the snot beat out of them. Now I call them up, navigate through the damned phone tree, tell the rep I'm tired of paying these stupid prices and that I'm going to cancel, switch to a competitor or go to Netflix or Hulu. That gets me some sort of discount, but I'm still not happy. That's when I ask to speak with a Retention Specialist and that is the person with the keys to the drawer where all the real goodies are kept. For the last three years I haven't paid a dime for the Sunday Ticket and I don't intend to ever again. So if some butt-hurt crybabies are pouting because those nasty ol' owners and players won't act right and they want to cancel their Sunday Ticket, go right the fuck ahead, you poor widdle snowflakes. Stick to the Whiter-than snow NASCAR with Richard "I'll fire anyone who takes a knee" Petty and the rest of the rednecks. Everybody wins. I wasn't a part of the conversation, so they may have been discussing if we're going to do the same for our NFL packages, or was there a way to take advantage of DTV. The stuff about retention is fairly routine.
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Post by nighttimer on Sept 28, 2017 17:21:57 GMT -5
But I think a CFL team still has the rights to Kaepernick. Have they made an offer? Yes. Now a CFL team has made an offer to Kaepernick. He ain't interested.The CFL is a good place for guys who aren't a good fit for the NFL or just can't hack it there. That's not Colin Kaepernick.
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Post by robeiae on Sept 28, 2017 17:49:19 GMT -5
The CFL is an option for people who want to play football for money, but don't have any offers from the NFL.
I mentioned the CFL in reference to the boycott started by the NAACP chapter in Atlanta. No NFL team is required to hire Kaepernick or should be required to hire him, imo. He has no right to play in the NFL, nor does any other NFL player.
He's not required to go to the CFL either and if he doesn't want to play there, that's completely fair. But the boycott was predicated on the idea that Colin Kaepernick was being allowed to play football. Clearly, that's not the case.
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Post by nighttimer on Sept 28, 2017 23:21:19 GMT -5
The CFL is an option for people who want to play football for money, but don't have any offers from the NFL. I mentioned the CFL in reference to the boycott started by the NAACP chapter in Atlanta. No NFL team is required to hire Kaepernick or should be required to hire him, imo. He has no right to play in the NFL, nor does any other NFL player. He's not required to go to the CFL either and if he doesn't want to play there, that's completely fair. But the boycott was predicated on the idea that Colin Kaepernick was being allowed to play football. Clearly, that's not the case. Correction: The boycott was predicated on the idea (and demonstrable fact) that Colin Kaepernick was NOT being allowed to play football IN THE NFL. He has no offers from the NFL because 32 teams have deliberately chosen to blackball him from the league to punish and make an example of him. Clearly that is the case and there's nothing "fair" about it. Quarterbacks of much lesser talent and ability than Kaepernick are playing on Sundays, sucking hard, and even Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers, know there's no football-related reason for Kaepernick not to be in the league. Why should he want to go to Canada when stinkbombs like Brian Hoyer, Mike Glennon and Brock Osweiler are on rosters? None of those zeroes have even sniffed a Super Bowl. That is why there are Black football fans not watching the NFL. Not because Kaepernick has a right to play in the NFL. Because it's not right that he isn't. Boycotting pro football. It's not just for disgruntled, disgusted White guys anymore.
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