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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 17:02:52 GMT -5
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Post by Vince524 on Sept 15, 2017 18:01:33 GMT -5
Now I want pizza.
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Post by robeiae on Sept 15, 2017 18:40:22 GMT -5
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Post by Don on Sept 16, 2017 7:49:37 GMT -5
Xtre! Xtre! Read all about it!
Government-appointed, crony-connected "expert" fails miserably to deliver expected results!
Film of this unprecedented event at eleven!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 7:51:28 GMT -5
You would think, if they're going to have a sign language interpreter, they could manage to get a qualified one. Surely there are places that certify interpreters' competence, right? Or they could have an organization for the deaf recommend one.
ETA:
Heh. The hurricane dude apparently has a deaf brother. I'm picturing him watching that broadcast and laughing his ass off at his brother later. I guarantee this comes up every Thanksgiving from now on.
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Post by Don on Sept 16, 2017 7:58:10 GMT -5
You would think, if they're going to have a sign language interpreter, they could manage to get a qualified one. Surely there are places that certify interpreters' competence, right? Or they could have an organization for the deaf recommend one. Hey, this dude was obviously government-approved. He was up there with half the county government. And scaring people with talk of monsters? That's a government job if I ever heard of one. He probably got a bonus for that part. Full disclosure: I lived in Manatee county for several years. My doctor's still there, along with a bunch of relatives. I'd bet he was certified by the pool manager. "Hey, I think Fred knows that hand-wavin' stuff, and he could afford to host the next poker game if we gave him this gig."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 8:06:29 GMT -5
I'm making a guess on the hurricane thing -- I bet the guy works for the county in some capacity and is always shooting his mouth off about how he is fluent in sign language and his deaf brother. When the sudden need for an interpreter arose during this emergency, they pressed him into service and he made an ass of himself. I've seen this with interviewees who claimed fluency in a language they didn't really have.
The Mandela thing, I just don't know. You'd think there'd be enough heads up to get someone good.
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Post by Amadan on Sept 16, 2017 21:08:51 GMT -5
Yeah, private companies never hire unqualified people or scammers. That sort of thing is unpossible in the free market.
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Post by robeiae on Sept 17, 2017 11:39:04 GMT -5
I'm making a guess on the hurricane thing -- I bet the guy works for the county in some capacity and is always shooting his mouth off about how he is fluent in sign language and his deaf brother. When the sudden need for an interpreter arose during this emergency, they pressed him into service and he made an ass of himself. I've seen this with interviewees who claimed fluency in a language they didn't really have. The Mandela thing, I just don't know. You'd think there'd be enough heads up to get someone good. The guy--as the story actually says--is a lifeguard for the county. This particular incident isn't rocket science. They wanted an interpreter and he either volunteered or someone who knew him recommended him. I don't think there's any reason to suppose he was "shooting off his mouth" or the like. There's a disaster, someone steps up and tries to fill a role, but isn't quite good enough.* I don't sign, but I assume conversing is much easier than translating. There's the speed, for one thing. And the lack of someone there to correct mistakes. To be sure, I find this amusing, but on a "the lighter side" kind of way. I don't think this guy deserves to be pilloried or the like. And I agree with Amadan's sentiments, as well: this isn't reflective of government incompetence at all. Manatee County isn't exactly a haven for government bureaucracy, after all. The biggest city there has less than 50,000 people. As to the Mandela incident, that's a little different. It was a fully planned and televised event. Someone screwed up royally there. tr * Since we're in recovery mode still, another hurricane story that is somewhat relevant: After Hurricane Andrew, South Florida where I was simply was a mess. No power, no services, and many cops (and firefighters) couldn't be on duty because they had severe damage to their homes or had lost them altogether (the hardest hit areas were truly ones where cops and firefighters tended to live). I was going through this major intersection--that was a real gateway to the areas that needed help--that of course had no traffic lights. And it wasn't going well. It needed help. So I helped. I went out to the center of the intersection and proceeded to direct traffic for a while. I'd never done it before, but it needed to be done, imo. And sure enough, after I had been out there for an hour or two, someone else walked out to me and offered to take over. I like this story, I liked that moment. But I bet that if there had been social media back then, someone would have posted a vid of me doing this that ridiculed me for not being good at directing traffic.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 12:05:15 GMT -5
I missed the lifeguard thing, at least at a conscious level. But yes, he's a county employee, so perhaps I retained in unconsciously. I admit once I watched the video, which I did more than once, the content of the article wasn't what stuck most in my mind.
"shooting his mouth off" was hyperbole-- but I stand by the statement. I think almost certainly he has spoken about his ability in the past and claimed a fluency he knows damn well he does not possess -- this is incredibly common with foreign languages. No way could this guy have thought he was anywhere close enough to fluent to translate -- his deaf brother surely disillusioned him about that long ago. He does not get out a single coherent thought -- not one. And watch his face. That is not the face of someone struggling to keep up (and surely if he was struggling to keep up, he could have asked her to speak more slowly) -- that is the face of someone who is bullshitting competence.
What say the rest of you? Watch the video, watch the captions of gibberish, watch his face. Either he sucks so bad he though he was doing just fine (in which case his brother has been fibbing to him greatly about his abilities), or else he is hoping to get away with the fakery.
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Post by robeiae on Sept 17, 2017 14:04:49 GMT -5
The statement you're standing by is just as assumption, based on other assumptions. It's certainly possible that you're 100% right. It's also possible that you're way off base, no? I watched the video. I don't sign, so I can't say if the translation at the bottom is accurate, but his face doesn't tell me a thing. What am I supposed to be seeing there?
And I don't really know what he was supposed to be getting away with. Trying to help out in an emergency situation? The cad! Is there some story out there that indicates he got paid to do this? If not, how was he going to be benefiting from his nefarious actions?
Perhaps he assumed he was better at this than he really is, perhaps he should never have offered/agreed to do it. Again, his lack of skill is certainly humorous. But without some actual evidence that indicates he's some kind of douche, I'm not interested in running him down just because he tried to help and it didn't work out. YMMV, of course.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 14:50:19 GMT -5
Deaf people depending on that message for their safety could have died because of his "help." If he was any less than 100% certain of his aptitude he should have declined. Had he done so, the county might have looked for someone else to sign, or found some other way to communicate to the deaf community. Yes, of course it is an assumption that he's bullshitting. . But it is one that IMO is supported better than any other. Here are the other possibilities, and why I reject them. You, of course, can do as you please. (1) He took on the task in good faith, and only discovered in performing it that he wasn't up to the task. I don't buy it. His face is perfectly calm. He pauses a second after she does on several occasions (doesn't scramble to catch up). He doesn't look like someone who knows he's in over his head. Such a person would probably look a bit harried and would be struggling to catch up, texting throughout her pauses or flagging her to wait, don't you think? But no -- he is signing authoritatively, stopping or repeatedly when she pauses as though to say, "I'm done signing, go on." Also, given the importance of the message, if he volunteered for the task out of sheer eagerness to help, I would think that once he realized he wasn't up to it, he'd be anxious to convey that so they could find another way. As far as I've heard, the first inkling he wasn't up to snuff didn't come from him, but from deaf groups. (b) He didn't realize even while he was doing it that he was in over his head and making such an abysmal hash of it -- only later, when deaf groups spoke up, did he realize it. That would explain his calm authoritative demeanor and his failure to alert them of his inability to perform the task. But that would indicate that his deaf brother, who surely has seen him sign, has for some reason chosen to never tell him of his failure to communicate -- to encourage him to think he's good at it,. And thus this guy really does think the signs for high winds and flooding are the signs for pizza and bear. Sad. Perhaps he had the sign language equivalent of the Hungarian phrase book. (I'm posting this for you, Angie .). And brother never let him in on it. (III.) The deaf groups criticizing his performance are just being meanie mcmeanies and really, it is a perfectly coherent translation. But no deaf people have bothered leaping to his defense. I find it easier to believe he's like the job candidates I know of who put on their resume they speak French as a bit of what they think is harmless puffery, only to be unexpectedly confronted with a French-speaking interviewer. Happens. All. The. Time. Seriously, it does. People talk about their competence at something, thinking it unlikely they'll be put to the test. If confronted, they have two choices: confess or bluff. Butterfly Mcqueen made the right call and confessed. But a surprising number of people try to bluff. Sure I could be wrong, but given all the facts I know and can observe, thus looks like a brag and bluff situation to me.
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Post by Christine on Sept 17, 2017 16:03:54 GMT -5
My sense of it is this guy knows enough sign language to converse with his brother, who is probably accustomed to his often incorrect signing and so always gets what he is trying to say. E.g., the guy used "d" for "7" -- the difference between having the last two fingers down versus extended when making a circle with the thumb and middle finger, index finger pointing up. If this guy signed "I-D5" to his brother, the brother would have been used to him doing it wrong and would understand he was saying "I-75." So, based on his brother understanding him, he may have felt more confident in being understood by the deaf population than was warranted.
But also, interpreting someone who is speaking constantly and not slowly, is a whole different ballgame from casual conversation. He may not have realized just how in over his head he was going to be. True, he didn't look panicked, but I imagine he was just remaining calm (as lifeguards will) and hoping to get the gist of it all across. But, coupled with his unique, only-understood-by-brother style, it was a total fail.
It reminds me of a year or so ago at the airport. I was in line to board the plane, and one of the airline staff was trying to explain to a woman near me that she could pre-board because she had a small child. I guessed the woman was Spanish-speaking, and she was looking around a bit helplessly, so I said, encouragingly, "Vamos. Tu nino." (Let's go. Your kid. SMDH) And did an ushering motion with my hand and nodded and smiled. Now, I speak Spanish somewhat better than that, but in the moment, under pressure to "do something," that was the best I could come up with. I thought about it for a few minutes afterward (too late) and came up with: "Tu vas primera porque tu tiene el pequino nino." That would have been clearer. Gah. (The redeeming part is that the woman did go to the front of line after hearing my four pitiful words. She even turned back to smile at me and said "Gracias.") I remember reading something like, being able to interpret a language requires being able to think in that language, not just speak in it. Or something like that.
<derail> That commissioner talking about her lucky charm and the heads-up penny she found on the ground... Wut. </derail>
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 17:44:27 GMT -5
My sense of it is this guy knows enough sign language to converse with his brother, who is probably accustomed to his often incorrect signing and so always gets what he is trying to say. E.g., the guy used "d" for "7" -- the difference between having the last two fingers down versus extended when making a circle with the thumb and middle finger, index finger pointing up. If this guy signed "I-D5" to his brother, the brother would have been used to him doing it wrong and would understand he was saying "I-75." So, based on his brother understanding him, he may have felt more confident in being understood by the deaf population than was warranted. But also, interpreting someone who is speaking constantly and not slowly, is a whole different ballgame from casual conversation. He may not have realized just how in over his head he was going to be. True, he didn't look panicked, but I imagine he was just remaining calm (as lifeguards will) and hoping to get the gist of it all across. But, coupled with his unique, only-understood-by-brother style, it was a total fail. It reminds me of a year or so ago at the airport. I was in line to board the plane, and one of the airline staff was trying to explain to a woman near me that she could pre-board because she had a small child. I guessed the woman was Spanish-speaking, and she was looking around a bit helplessly, so I said, encouragingly, "Vamos. Tu nino." (Let's go. Your kid. SMDH) And did an ushering motion with my hand and nodded and smiled. Now, I speak Spanish somewhat better than that, but in the moment, under pressure to "do something," that was the best I could come up with. I thought about it for a few minutes afterward (too late) and came up with: "Tu vas primera porque tu tiene el pequino nino." That would have been clearer. Gah. (The redeeming part is that the woman did go to the front of line after hearing my four pitiful words. She even turned back to smile at me and said "Gracias.") I remember reading something like, being able to interpret a language requires being able to think in that language, not just speak in it. Or something like that. <derail> That commissioner talking about her lucky charm and the heads-up penny she found on the ground... Wut. </derail> Yeah, the lucky penny thing was...yeah. I've totally been on both sides of your example, as the recipient of someone trying to communicate with me, and as me trying to communicate with my less-than-fluent Spanish or German, sometimes with more success than at others. And yeah, it's harder when you're put on the spot and under stress. But here's the thing -- in those situations, I didn't kid myself that I was clearly communicating a fluent message. If the person clearly got what I was saying (got on the bus, turned the right way, etc.) I was glad. But if I wasn't sure they got it, and it mattered, I'd have tried to get them better help than mine. Here, it's extremely hard for me to believe, looking at those captions, that even if the guy was a total optimist who waaay overrated his skills,he could have thought he clearly conveyed this important message.
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Post by robeiae on Sept 17, 2017 19:46:45 GMT -5
My sense of it is this guy knows enough sign language to converse with his brother, who is probably accustomed to his often incorrect signing and so always gets what he is trying to say. E.g., the guy used "d" for "7" -- the difference between having the last two fingers down versus extended when making a circle with the thumb and middle finger, index finger pointing up. If this guy signed "I-D5" to his brother, the brother would have been used to him doing it wrong and would understand he was saying "I-75." So, based on his brother understanding him, he may have felt more confident in being understood by the deaf population than was warranted. But also, interpreting someone who is speaking constantly and not slowly, is a whole different ballgame from casual conversation. He may not have realized just how in over his head he was going to be. True, he didn't look panicked, but I imagine he was just remaining calm (as lifeguards will) and hoping to get the gist of it all across. But, coupled with his unique, only-understood-by-brother style, it was a total fail. This is what I more or less think, as well. Without some additional info, I can't say that this was a result of him inserting himself foolishly into the situation or of him getting asked to do it and agreeing just to help out in a pinch. So I'm going to actually not assume the worst. Because it was all a difficult situation for everyone (which makes it very much unlike the Mandela incident).
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